B. Jeffrey Madoff, The Power of Curiosity Fuel (#214)

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B. Jeffrey Madoff is a director, photographer, writer, and professor based in New York City. He is the founder of Madoff Productions, a film production company that creates branded content all around the world. Jeffrey Madoff has edited and directed award-winning commercials, documentaries, and web content for clients such as Ralph Lauren, Victoria’s Secret, Tiffany, Harvard University, and many others.

As you will discover in this episode, Creativity has played a massive role in Jeffrey Madoff’s life, and that’s why he is also committed to teaching others how to make a living with it. He is, in fact, on the faculty at Parsons School for Design, where he teaches his course “Creativity: Making a Living With Your Ideas”, which is one of the most popular on campus for those interested in building a sustainable career. To make his lessons and advice available to people outside campus, Jeff has also written a book about his class, entitled “Creative Careers: Making a Living with Your Ideas”, which was a #1 Bestseller on Amazon.

Wrestler, Fashion Designer, and Director

Jeffrey has always been interested in ideas, and he has been able to figure out a way to make a career out of it. He attributes that to his curiosity and openness. In fact, his success was built by pursuing that which he would find enriching and engaging, and his diverse background clearly shows that. He has a degree in Philosophy & Psychology, he was part of the wrestling team of the University of Wisconsin and even became one of the top 10 fashion designers in the U.S.

Wrestling has helped Jeffrey forge his strategic mindset, as it’s a sport where you always have to think ahead, not just about the next move. That, together with his academic background, has helped him start his first business in the fashion industry, to then transition into the film industry and create his production company.

And now here’s B. Jeffrey Madoff.

Show notes:

[0:00] Intro
[4:52] How’d it happen for Jeff Madoff
[12:30] How he ended up going to the University of Wisconsin
[15:37] On his choice of degree and how it served him in life
[22:54] Curiosity as a fuel for learning
[26:26] When critical voices come from yourself
[29:43] How did he start as a professor?
[34:14] His thoughts on pre-conceived ideas about his class
[36:28] His academic background, wrestling, and the film industry
[39:46] How he first became part of a business
[45:13] Moving to New York
[51:18] Selling his business and moving into film
[58:26] Creative Careers: Making a Living With Your Ideas
[1:02:04] Making a Living with Your Ideas Podcast
[1:06:23] Personality: The Lloyd Price Musical
[1:15:10] Outro

Full transcript below

Video on The Power of Curiosity Fuel

Visit MadoffProductions.com to See Jeffrey Madoff’s Creative Work

Discover Creative Careers Website

Connect with B. Jeffrey Madoff on LinkedIn

Get Jeffrey Madoff’s Book “Creative Careers: Making a Living with Your Ideas”

Follow Creative Careers on Instagram

Follow Madoff Productions on Instagram

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Podcast with B. Jeffrey Madoff. The Power of Curiosity Fuel.

TRANSCRIPT – HOW’D IT HAPPEN – B. JEFFREY MADOFF, GUEST

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Mike Malatesta: hey everybody welcome back to the how to happen podcast i’m so happy to have you here, as I always am, and today I am once again fulfilling my promise to you by bringing you an amazing success story i’ve got be Jeffrey Madoff with me today Jeff thanks for coming welcome to the show.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Well, thank you for having me on Mike i’m really interested in hearing, who had the amazing success so i’ll be interviewing you you’re saying.

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Mike Malatesta: You know.

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Mike Malatesta: here’s a here’s the thing you can ask me anything to along the way here, so if we if it ends up going that way then that’s cool with me as well.

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Mike Malatesta: So let me tell you a little bit about Jeff Jeff is the founder of matt off productions based in New York City his company collaborates with ad agencies public relations firms and directly with clients to produce commercials branded content and live streaming events.

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Mike Malatesta: Jeff began his career as a fashion designer he was one of the top 10 designers in the United States then switch careers to film and video production.

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Mike Malatesta: He edited and directed award winning commercials documentaries and web content around the world for clients, such as Ralph lauren victoria’s secret tiffany radio city, the American Academy of dramatic arts Harvard University and weill cornell medical college.

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Mike Malatesta: Jeff also works with private equity firms and investment banks, such as lazard Fernando mid ocean partners and Lincoln shire to produce videos to position and tell the brand story for companies that are being sold.

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Mike Malatesta: which by the way, I think, is a fantastic idea, having just gone through a sale process with an investment bank that you know prepares the SIP.

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Mike Malatesta: You know and it’s all numbers and it’s like boilerplate stuff that tells nothing about the culture of the company or why it’s important or whatever, so what you’re doing there is that’s that’s game changing idea that I love that.

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Mike Malatesta: Jeff authored a book called creative careers, making a living with your ideas, which is an Amazon bestseller based on the class he developed and teaches at parsons school of design in New York City.

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Mike Malatesta: Jeff is a playwright, and theater producer because play personality, the Lloyd price musical based on the life of rock and roll hall of fame legend Lloyd price.

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Mike Malatesta: will have its world premiere in February of 22 at the people’s life theater in malvern Pennsylvania, is that still right Jeff February 22 or is it.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Actually it’s March.

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Mike Malatesta: march okay that’s what I thought I heard so march of 22.

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Mike Malatesta: So Jeff has been a featured speaker on creating a brand and creativity at wharton school princeton university and why you steinhardt and the list goes on and on and on, he co host and amazing podcast with Dan Sullivan called anything and everything which I find amazingly.

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Mike Malatesta: Well, I want to talk about it, but I found it, I found it just amazingly interesting Jeff.

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Mike Malatesta: Jeff graduated with honors from the University of Wisconsin with degrees in philosophy and psychology.

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Mike Malatesta: He was also on the wrestling team which, combined with his academic studies prepared him for a life in the film business and that i’m interested to explore that a little bit.

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Mike Malatesta: You can find out more about Jeff at www dot matt off productions COM on linkedin at be Jeffrey matt off and on instagram at matt off productions.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So yeah that’s that’s all we have time for today thanks for.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Having me on I appreciate it.

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Mike Malatesta: Well, I think it’s important you know to to get that out there and all the things you’ve done because it’s not many people have made the kind of career shifts that you’ve made nor the kind of.

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Mike Malatesta: I think you know fabulous impact that you’ve made either, so I know that was long, but I wanted to get it out there.

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Mike Malatesta: let’s let’s be.

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Jeffrey Madoff: very kind of you and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: It could also mean, I have a severe character flaw and can hold a job, so you know.

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Jeffrey Madoff: that’s that’s another part.

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Jeffrey Madoff: will go with the positive aspect.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah yeah we’ll do that, and if it.

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Mike Malatesta: If we transcend into that part will explore that as well.

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Mike Malatesta: Great.

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Mike Malatesta: Alright, so Jeff let’s keep going I start every show, with the same question, and that is how did happen for you.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Birth you know was really the inciting incident.

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Jeffrey Madoff: That and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And because there was no grand plan, and when I entered into this world.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And even as I was growing up it’s not like I had some divine master plan that I was going to pursue.

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Jeffrey Madoff: i’ve always been seduced by ideas and things that I find engaging or cool or interesting and i’ve been fortunate enough to figure out a way to make a living at it, and so you know I.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I can’t say that I had this plan from the beginning that I was going to do X, Y and Z and here’s the five steps to success.

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Jeffrey Madoff: right because that’s not how I lived my life, you know i’ve lived my life pursuing the things that I find personally enriching and engaging.

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Mike Malatesta: from a young age, even.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah yeah I mean you know I did.

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Jeffrey Madoff: The growing up in Ohio.

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Jeffrey Madoff: akron Ohio rubber capital of the world that’s where I go yesterday, I went to firestone high school.

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Mike Malatesta: Oh, you did.

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Jeffrey Madoff: It yeah and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know I had the typical jobs growing up, I had a paper route I don’t think those exist anymore anywhere in the United States, but I had a paper out I sold door to door.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I worked retail and my parents had retail stores, so I did get business exposure and my parents both mom and dad were entrepreneurs, as is my sister janice and entrepreneur she has her own retail store.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I never wanted to get into retail.

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Jeffrey Madoff: But I did through osmosis just dinnertime conversations between my parents.

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Jeffrey Madoff: learning about business, you know about the difference between wholesale and retail about markup and margins and all those kinds of things so.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I did get that education and that embedded in me so that I had a certain foundation whenever I was trying to do something different, because.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I believe everything you do informs everything else you do, and if you have your eyes and ears and brain open that you’re able to apply the knowledge that you’ve gained.

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Jeffrey Madoff: In one aspect of your life and put that into another aspect of your life, and so I think that the fact that I had that foundation in business.

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Jeffrey Madoff: In basic business from my parents and just growing up in that I think that helped me a lot in terms of being able to realize business opportunities or create business opportunities and knowing what I needed to do.

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Mike Malatesta: And, did you I also had a paper out as a kid growing up, I had a big basket on the front of my bike I don’t know if yours was a walking router you had a bike as well.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah it was a walking around, although I would ride my bike to that and back then you didn’t have to worry about the bike getting swiped.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So yeah like leave it there yeah.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah yeah, but it was it was you know the walking and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Good fold good toss.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah that kind of thing.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah that prop Batman memories, because we used to go to there was a hot one house in the neighborhood where all the papers would get dropped off by the.

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Mike Malatesta: The paper company, I guess, and hey pick them up, and then you fold them put them in my basket take off and throw them and, hopefully, throw them on the porch or wherever the person wanted it yeah cool.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Okay, and hopefully the dog doesn’t come after.

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Mike Malatesta: You have to.

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Jeffrey Madoff: That was, but you know, the thing about the paper route is it’s essentially when you think about it.

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Jeffrey Madoff: you’re buying wholesale.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Right you’re selling retail.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah and so you’ve got your your market so you’ve got your market demographics, which are that neighborhood the specific houses that are subscribing to the paper which in those days was just about all of them in that neighborhood.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And then you’d have to collect.

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Mike Malatesta: Right.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know, and then you would hope.

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Jeffrey Madoff: That around the holidays, you did a good tip.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Right, so it was an incentive to not throw the papers in their shrubs or on their roof or anything else but.

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Jeffrey Madoff: that’s a an example of what I mean is that, although that was a job for a kid it’s also a job, where you learn that you.

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Jeffrey Madoff: pay for something, and you have to resell it at a higher price in order to survive and make money and and if you do a good job, meaning you deliver on time.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And you know throw it someplace that’s annoying to your customer that you’re rewarded for that further by many of them by getting a tip yeah.

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Mike Malatesta: And the collection parts pretty important to for.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Very aspiring.

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Mike Malatesta: Business people.

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Jeffrey Madoff: make a.

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Mike Malatesta: sale is nothing it’s.

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Mike Malatesta: till you’ve collected the money right.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Right.

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Mike Malatesta: What were what were you mentioned door to door selling what were some of the other things that you did as a kid Jeff to turn money.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Well summer was an opportunity for mowing lawns you know, so I would start getting my clients in the spring and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Cut lawns and you know that’s how I made money as a as a young teenager and then, when it would smell, you know that was a great opportunity, because I would go with my neighbor Jimmy and we would shovel snow and we would make you know we’d each make 30 to 50 bucks a day.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Which back then was really you know good money.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And so you know again it was it was realizing looking back that.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Okay there’s a problem that needs to be solved there they can’t drive our driveway because of the snow.

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Jeffrey Madoff: offer a solution, provide that service and get paid and there was.

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Jeffrey Madoff: No overhead it was just time and I didn’t even have to buy the snow shovel because we had one from home so.

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Mike Malatesta: Parents yeah.

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Jeffrey Madoff: that’s right.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah huh yeah I am did you ever little tangent here, but did you ever.

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Mike Malatesta: did when it was when when the streets for snowpack did you ever ride on the back of bumpers of cars we call it sketching where I grew up where you would we’d grab on the back of the bumper and just go for a ride on the on the snow.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Yes, and I remember that turn to the scheduling no I never did it.

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Jeffrey Madoff: A PIC I had enough sense to realize this is potentially really dangerous.

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Mike Malatesta: it’s super stupid.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah and so.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know I didn’t do it, but.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I am aware of it and saw it, but I thought this is not a good idea that you fall down and you could go under the car when you fell and this can’t be good so into it.

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Mike Malatesta: The dry patches were a real bummer.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah.

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Mike Malatesta: So you grew up in akron and you ended up at university of Wisconsin instead of Ohio State or or you know you went out of State to Wisconsin what was what what was what went on with your choice there.

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Jeffrey Madoff: are well there were there were a few things that went on, with the choice you know I did some research into it and among the state schools Wisconsin ranked and so does near the top right.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And, but the real story Mike is that I was thinking about Wisconsin and northwestern.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Those were the two schools that I was most interested in.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I was interested in northwestern because I had a teacher in eighth grade, who is incredibly attractive and she went there and I thought wow you know she drove a Porsche.

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Jeffrey Madoff: To give me ride home from school and I thought, well, maybe there’s one of those my age and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So that’s what attracted me to northwestern and I love the decision matrix there Jeff that’s really yeah it gets either better or worse, depending on your point of view.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Because, so I asked my parents, if I could take the car and check out northwestern and university Wisconsin and I get to evanston were northwestern is.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Right I don’t see anybody, and so, finally, I see a couple of students walking by and I roll down the windows, excuse me, where is everybody and they said well it’s finals week and everybody’s in studying, so I rolled up the window and continued on to pass without getting out of the car.

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Jeffrey Madoff: and get to Madison and I was going to be meeting a.

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Jeffrey Madoff: friend of mine, a girl who had graduated the year before me, who was going there and I was meeting her behind the student Union, so I find my way to the student Union walk through and you walk out back on the patio and it overlooks the lake.

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Mike Malatesta: The lake yeah.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And here’s the clincher was my favorite band at the time was the Paul butterfield blues band, and they were giving a free concert.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Behind the student Union, so I hear this music and I see that it’s Paul butterfield and I thought wow this is cool and so hearing my favorite band meeting a girl.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Entering into a concert, not a tour of the school with my favorite band.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Sure decision was made.

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Jeffrey Madoff: that’s where that’s where I went to school.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And so it was it was a great choice Madison was a fantastic place to spend those years, a really great academically a great school also a lot of fun and mean nothing but pleasant memories more than pleasant memories of that time it was great.

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Mike Malatesta: And you chose psychology and philosophy, I think, is what what I think is what it was.

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Mike Malatesta: It was was that and the wrestling so first of all on the choice for.

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Mike Malatesta: degrees was that something you entered into college knowing you wanted to do or was there.

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Mike Malatesta: You know the time that came along, like, for me, I ended up in an with an English and a liberal arts degree in English and mine was sort of.

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Mike Malatesta: That down to the wire, you know second semester sophomore year where they say you, you have to choose a major and you know I.

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Mike Malatesta: Just you know sort of picked it out of the hat because I didn’t want to do math and I didn’t you know I had all these reasons, things I didn’t want to do, but I didn’t actually know what I did do, how about you.

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Jeffrey Madoff: uh I didn’t know what I wanted to major yeah and I took a philosophy class and the Professor.

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Jeffrey Madoff: If you were doing from central casting you know you’re doing a movie you want a philosophy, Professor.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know, he wore the Tweed sport jacket with the suede elbow patches.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah and a really incisive thinker, so you know you think you’d make a point and found like that he could change the direction of the discussion in the argument.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And it wasn’t that there was necessarily right and wrong but it’s how was your how are your critical thinking skills.

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Jeffrey Madoff: How did you construct an argument and I loved it because it made you think and it made you think in different ways, and so I was so taken by that first class that I took more philosophy classes and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Like I just devoured the courses I loved it because it was it was challenging me to think in different ways that I had never been exposed to before, so I really liked that and then.

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Jeffrey Madoff: The same thing with psychology and, by the way, psychology and philosophy used to be cross listed, they were considered the same discipline until 1932.

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Mike Malatesta: and know that.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Okay yeah the interesting footnote to that is that separation happened because encyclopedia Britannica.

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Jeffrey Madoff: In 1932 had Sigmund Freud right the entry.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Of psychology and that’s the first time that the disciplines were split apart because philosophy means study of life.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So.

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Jeffrey Madoff: With psychology I found I was really fascinated with.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Why do people do what they do think what they think and make the decisions that they made, and so I found that a really, really interesting area to mine too.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So when I came to declaring my major Finally I had accumulated the most credits in philosophy and psychology and I always took you know pretty heavy credit load.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And so I was able to complete a double major and those two things and i’m really very happy I did, and they have served me well, I think.

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Mike Malatesta: How has the so that’s really interesting that you know the study of how you know how people think what they think or or why people think what they think how has that served you.

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Mike Malatesta: You know, as you’ve gone through you know through life because i’m always trying to figure out why people think what they think and I I don’t have the I don’t have the academic.

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Mike Malatesta: You know background to to know for sure I only have my own experience in my own thoughts and biases and whatever, but how does it serve you.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Well, we all have our own thoughts and biases yeah and there isn’t.

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Jeffrey Madoff: An answer you know, the point is that we are neither as logical, as we think we are when we’re making decisions.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And that there’s a lot of factors that figure into how you make decisions and that became its own separate design discipline long after I was out of college called behavioral economics that Daniel kahneman and Amos diversity actually developed that field.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Firstly, died and they don’t give they don’t give Nobel Prizes posthumously so economists got the Nobel Prize and they created that field.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And it’s fascinating I would recommend, by the way, a great book by Michael Lewis, who, I think, is a great writer, and he wrote a book called the undoing project about condiments first key and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: It really takes you inside their minds and how they did tests to determine how people make decisions and so interesting and then after that.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Well, actually will long before that I wish I wish lewis’s book had come out first but I read heuristics and biases which was there seminal work common diversity of seminal work.

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Jeffrey Madoff: OK and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Now of course there’s a number of people in that field who are doing really interesting work like Richard failures and other one.

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Jeffrey Madoff: But I loved again thinking about things in ways I had never thought about them before and that’s really opened me up, so the two majors that I had.

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Jeffrey Madoff: just opened me up to new ways of thinking and I think the way that it served me well, is that.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I can see patterns and certain things and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And I am open minded enough that i’m not threatened if somebody doesn’t agree with me.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I don’t dig my heels in i’m interested in why they think that because I think that’s important in business.

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Jeffrey Madoff: If you walk into a meeting or sales meeting and you only have your agenda in mind right then uh you’re not thinking about customer and in order to.

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Jeffrey Madoff: sustain a business, you have to think of your customer goes back to the paper route, you know don’t throw it on a roof don’t throw it in the shrubs get on their front step that’s where they want it.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So you know these lessons, some of them seem quite little at the time become major lessons, because the situation may be a lot more complicated that circumstance, may be a lot more complicated, but the message is delivered the product, where the client wants it, you know.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Pretty yeah.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah yeah and a lot of stuff is.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Most things are more separated by jargon than they are by actual behaviors, and so it didn’t serve me well, because I just I think enter into things, maybe a bit more open or curious, and I think curiosity, is also an essential part of it for me.

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Mike Malatesta: And something that seems like it goes away as you age, you know, and maybe even as you’re a kid curiosity you start off with tons of it right and then.

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Mike Malatesta: People say don’t do that be careful, you know and give you all these things, and then maybe it starts to fade but, as you get older, it seems like.

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Mike Malatesta: Maybe this isn’t the case for you, but it seems like you really have to work at staying curious.

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Mike Malatesta: Because.

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Mike Malatesta: He doesn’t want you to be curious.

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Jeffrey Madoff: uh I find curiosity a fuel it’s a fuel for learning yeah because it makes you want to know more about things that you don’t know about, so I think that curiosity is absolutely essential and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Show me someone who is not curious.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And I will show you a really boring person, yes, and you know, so I think that having a sense of curiosity having a sense of humor and having a sense of empathy.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Are all really important traits and if you eliminate any of those three I think the the it for me diminishes the interest that I have a except that I sometimes wonder.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Why don’t they want to know more.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Why don’t they want to learn more, and you know i’m also a professor, you know I teach and so.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I know, and I say to my students, the first day of class, there are no boring subjects, there are lots of boring teachers so.

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Jeffrey Madoff: it’s about applying yourself, and you know I don’t think that you get an education in school, I think you take an education and education has to be interactive.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And that’s the way you discover things and so all of these have to do with following that path of curiosity and allowing your mind to wander.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So you can wonder about things and question things so if anything as i’ve gotten older there’s so much more that I want to know there’s so much more that I want to read.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Because I think you’re right people just a lot of people just calcify.

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Jeffrey Madoff: But I think that that these are habits in values that are ingrained quite early and I had teachers, that would say why you asked so many questions.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You asked me to me many questions and, fortunately, because of my parents encouraged that that didn’t dissuade me, you know so that wasn’t going to just shut me up.

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Jeffrey Madoff: But I saw a lot of students, you know my contemporaries were kids I saw them shutting down they didn’t want to put something out there because they’re afraid of being criticized or humiliated.

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Jeffrey Madoff: By could be teachers could be parents could even be peers and i’ve always valued.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Having not only thinking about things, but people who shared in curiosity, even if we don’t share the same outlook on life, but you know, then i’m curious about how they arrived, where they did.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Right Why did I arrived, where I am right.

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Mike Malatesta: that’s that’s an interesting perspective because I.

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Mike Malatesta: I get what you’re saying, and I also think to myself internally how do I sometimes.

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Mike Malatesta: abandon my own curiosity and one of the ways that I think of is for a long time, and maybe even still today in some respects i’ve got this what I call a perfect problem.

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Mike Malatesta: Like if I don’t think I can do something perfectly or really, really well Jeff i’m a little bit.

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Mike Malatesta: Red i’m you know i’m a little bit like dragging my my heels on getting it out there, because I think that it will reflect poorly upon me if it’s not you know.

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Mike Malatesta: super high quality or super good or whatever, and I, I know that’s terrible thinking and nobody should be thinking like that, because perfection is impossible, you know, but I think.

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Mike Malatesta: there’s the there’s maybe even, at least with me and maybe others there’s sort of a little internal sabotage that can come along and get in your way, just as that’s that can be just as powerful as people you know outside people saying you can’t do that or you shouldn’t do that or whatever.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Well, I think those critical those critical voices become internalized.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah and and they happen.

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Jeffrey Madoff: That happens at a very young age.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And you know you can really discourage people and, by the way, that doesn’t mean that those parents or those teachers have mal intent, I mean, some of them do some of them are just.

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Jeffrey Madoff: overly concerned with managing the classroom yeah you know or managing the kids in the family, and you know and your peers you don’t know what’s happening to them at home and why they might be critical of you, but.

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Jeffrey Madoff: i’ve always found that.

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Jeffrey Madoff: i’m much more interested it’s i’ll give you a quick example when my kids were graduating from high school, there was a party, you know with parents and kids.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And I spent all evening with my kids friends.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I wanted to hear where they’re going to school what they were going to be doing, why are you going to do that, and all that kind of stuff and one of the parents came up to me and said you’ve been down here all evening.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know, with with these kids you know why don’t you come and talk to us adults.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And I said, because I know your script.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And they’re embarking on a whole new adventure and I find that a lot more interesting and which I did.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I loved hearing their enthusiasm about where they were going to go to school, what they were going to be studying.

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Jeffrey Madoff: The fears they had the adventure, they were looking forward to, and all of that kind of thing and again it goes back to the notion of curiosity if you’re not curious about those things that you don’t know about.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I don’t think that makes you a very interesting person and curiosity and inquisitiveness I think makes a person interested, because it shows they’re engaged in the show you’re engaged by asking questions.

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Mike Malatesta: I agree, the most boring conversation is the one that you have with someone who doesn’t ask you one thing it’s tell you stuff.

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Right.

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Mike Malatesta: So when you became a professor.

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Mike Malatesta: Well, first of all, how did you become a professor and when you, you know first got into the classroom are you ready, are you.

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Mike Malatesta: You know, intimidated, how are you feeling when you, you know when you when you first started.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Well, I first started as a guest speaker a gentleman by the name of Dean, stable and it’s kind of funny his name is Dean, and he is a professor, a tenured professor at the new school which parsons is a part of.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Okay, and he came up to me after I was shooting directing Ralph lauren show, and he said i’m Dean stable from parsons school of design and I said.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Oh you’re the Dean, oh no, no, no i’m not the damn I said I thought I said Dean, is the know Dean like Dean Martin, you know it’s my.

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Jeffrey Madoff: it’s my first name.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And at that time.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I was one of the first people videoing fashion shows and actually filming fashion shows, and so he asked me if i’d come to this class and talk about what I did.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So I did, and I also asked the students, a lot of questions I didn’t just stand up there, you know for our and talk so I showed a bit of my work talk to them about that invited them to ask questions.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And I ended up getting invited back every Semester to do his class and that went for about I don’t know, three or four years, four years, and he said there’s an opening.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I think you ought to apply for it and that’s when my schedule is such that I, you know Sometimes I get a phone call and then i’m out of the country for a week or a month.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I don’t know I can’t do that, and he said well why don’t you just try try for a third of the Semester.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And you know do teach for like four weeks or five weeks, whatever it was see what you think.

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Jeffrey Madoff: What I didn’t know is that there was me and two other people who are vying for that position.

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Mike Malatesta: So competition okay.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And I think it was both the competition, but it was also you know, seeing whether or not you’d like doing it, since none of us were teachers before.

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Jeffrey Madoff: But I you know also i’ve always kind of considered myself a teacher, I mean i’m a parent so that involves some teaching I direct crews, you know I do these things that involve engagement in the seeking of more knowledge, and so I didn’t look at it, as alien and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So I was offered the position I told him the same concerns I had, and I was hired and now as of about three and a half weeks ago and started my 14th year.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So you know I love doing it it’s always different, like you, with your podcasts I get to invite really interesting people hope on not a low ebb and you’re picking your guests.

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Jeffrey Madoff: and

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Jeffrey Madoff: And so i’m always learning from those people and I learned, along with the students plus i’m fascinated by how the students view things.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And so there’s great discussion with the students, so I kind of worked into it, not that I was consciously doing that, but by being in the classroom once a semester, and for two hours once a Semester and doing that enjoyed it.

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Jeffrey Madoff: had been invited to do other public speaking things and I have fun with it because it’s you know it’s performative.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know and and I think that you can have great information, but if you don’t deliver it in a way that’s going to engage your audience.

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Jeffrey Madoff: It doesn’t make any difference because it’s not going to land and now more than ever there’s so many distractions I mean you and I didn’t grow up going to school, looking at our tablets or phones and so there’s a lot of.

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Mike Malatesta: That girls.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Yes, and there’s just.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah there’s a lot more competition for attention right and so.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I I love the teaching and that’s how I got into it, I was fortunate enough that I got offered that position and then made the most of it really like that’s what led to my book.

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Mike Malatesta: And plus there were no.

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Mike Malatesta: fashion, reality shows that the you know when you were growing up either I can just imagine what some of the preconceived notions that maybe some of your students come into class with now that you can see, all of these.

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Mike Malatesta: That you know the way it’s supposedly is and what do I, you know what do I know I just but my wife watches a bunch of those and I just I wonder is is that something that influences people that has to come into your.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I think if people are influenced clearly people are influenced by all kinds of things.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah some of them.

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Jeffrey Madoff: might question.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And uh you know, the thing is with my class I have like last week, I had a fashion designer and his business partner.

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Jeffrey Madoff: But next week I have that one of the original writers from Saturday night live and we’re going to talk about comedy and then, I have a cognitive neuroscientist and I have somebody talking about environmental sustainability, and so I go into so many different areas it’s very eclectic.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Because I want to show people that there is common ground them on all of these fields, and I want to open the students eyes to potential career opportunities for them.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And just not only broaden their worldview it frankly abroad in his mind because i’m bringing in these people and i’ve had.

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Jeffrey Madoff: enough people that I find good people through other good people and so i’m always learning so it’s to me it’s it’s really a fun way to spend time teaching and learning and teaching is a fantastic way to learn.

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Mike Malatesta: that’s a that’s I love the way that you bring in all those different disciplines and all those different parts of business right, because if you’re going to get into fashion, or whatever you.

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Mike Malatesta: Know there’s all kinds of components that go into it, just like in every business and the more knowledgeable you are of the components, the more successful you’ll likely be.

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Mike Malatesta: And the better i’d say the more prod you think about things to you wouldn’t be so narrow.

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Mike Malatesta: In the in the bio we mentioned that you know, the combination of your academic background and wrestling.

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Mike Malatesta: got you prepared for life in the film business and I wanted to come back to that because I wasn’t I i’d like you to tie that up for us because I don’t really understand how how that part happened.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Well, part of that was tongue in cheek.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Okay, but there is a real.

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Jeffrey Madoff: There is a real lesson there that I learned and in wrestling.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And maybe I could have gotten the same thing from playing chess but in wrestling you have to think in series.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You can’t just think about the move you’re making now you have to think about So what if you hit resistance.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know how are you going to pivot and make another move, so you always have to be thinking ahead so so rustling has a great deal to do with strategy.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And what do you do when you meet the resistance, do you fight against the resistance, or do you try to use that resistance against your opponent.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Or do you do something unexpected that breaks that resistance and so wrestling you know, was an you know there’s all these sports metaphors for business and all that.

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Jeffrey Madoff: But I did look at it that way, again I didn’t think of that consciously when I was going through it, looking back, I saw some lessons that I learned from it that I thought were quite applicable and one of the main things that’s applicable is in wrestling.

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Jeffrey Madoff: technique is most important.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Then conditioning.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And down quite a bit, although most people don’t realize this, if they haven’t done it is strength, if you have technique and you have conditioning.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You can be a much bigger opponent.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Okay it’s all in weight classes, but i’m to I would wrestle against the football players, I get football players in Madison.

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Mike Malatesta: to train other humans.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah so I was wrestling at 123 and I would be against guys that were over 200 pounds who would first laughed at me.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And said out man I don’t want to hurt you, you know and that kind of see one hurt me oh yeah you know, and I said i’ll tell you what if you’re not getting a workout will stop.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And because I had technique, I could break them down to the mat I could keep them down and wrestling is the second highest caloric burn sport there is it’s absolutely exhausting.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And, your question is which is the first most.

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camera.

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Jeffrey Madoff: The chest actually cross country ski racing.

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Mike Malatesta: Cross country skiers.

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Jeffrey Madoff: But anyhow, so you know, the thing is that there were lessons and metaphors.

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Jeffrey Madoff: In that and in the wrestling, and so I decided, if nothing else, maybe, people will find that humorous but also if i’m asked the question, I actually have an answer, or at least I hope it seemed like I had an answer.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah it was a good answer and I, like the tongue in cheek part of it, too, it is, it is a nice combination and so it’s kind of funny and it’s also real.

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Jeffrey Madoff: mm hmm.

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Mike Malatesta: it’s real so when you is, I think I remember when I listened to on TIM ferriss show you when you got out of college you started a business in Madison.

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Mike Malatesta: came part of it, this is what was that what was how did that get off the ground.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I was working in a small boutique in Madison.

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Jeffrey Madoff: and

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Jeffrey Madoff: dear friend of mine that I don’t remember not knowing you know his mother and my mother grew up together, so we were infants.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know crawling around together and he graduated from school a year before me, and you know Kenny merriman is his name and he called me up and said hey can you think of a gig that would earn more than bank interest i’ve saved up some money.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And I was in the store and I knew what sold, and I could always draw and I said i’ll start a clothing company, he said Okay, and then he sent me what was more money than I had ever had at one time.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And memory is hazy and i’ve gone back and forth on this, but maybe it was 20 $500 and you know that seemed like a lot to me I realized, it was nothing but that started me on the road, so I had to teach myself Fashion Design, I didn’t know how things were made.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I was ignorant, but not stupid So when I saw a fabric on the bolt I thought it was hosts out because it hadn’t been made into anything.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Yet, and being a kid you know with what I had here, then, and it was down to my shoulders and drove a motorcycle.

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Jeffrey Madoff: A lot of people in business, when I was starting out didn’t take me seriously because there were there were not a lot of you know startups wasn’t a thing.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And so it was a.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know, interesting I but that’s how I that’s how I started design and I established what I think is incredibly important for your audience to understand.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Is the notion of proof of concept and proof of concept being does anybody in in love with the idea, aside from you and that doesn’t count when you include your parents or your friends.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Are people going to be willing to pay for what service or product you’re offering so I had some of the seamstresses that would do alterations at the store and put together some of my designs they sold out right away made some more sold out right away, and then I designed a fuller line.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Had it put together strapped it on the back of my motorcycle drove to Chicago from Madison and went to 18 boutiques and I think I sold 14 or 15 of them and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Had orders, then I had to figure out well how am I going to make this stuff you know it’s like what we’re talking about before we started the podcast you’re selling is one thing, then you got to deliver, and you got to collect the money.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So I had to learn a lot and I was learning as I went because doing it wrong could put me out of business.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Which isn’t to say that I didn’t make mistakes, but fortunately the successes were were more significant than the mistakes, for, and so I was able to survive and that’s how I got into the fashion business, it was not by.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Any kind of no pun intended design, it was by accident.

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Mike Malatesta: So you started just someone who could sketch, and you could send you could sketch, you know design to clothing.

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Mike Malatesta: can give you 2500 bucks and you were able to.

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Mike Malatesta: figure, the rest of it out, it sounds like so take it from your notebook to.

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Mike Malatesta: You know, real and, if I remember the story, you had over 100 employees.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Over yeah pretty quickly.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah you know I didn’t know what it was, other than I was growing a business.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So I didn’t I didn’t have the time to think about wow this is amazing.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah I was trying to.

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Jeffrey Madoff: sell what I was designing get it manufacturers a lot of those people that I had were people that were working my company was I took over a factory.

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Jeffrey Madoff: ended up taking over to factories and had offices in New York and in Chicago with the merchandise Mart and I had you know some national sales people, and can you know, I was learning, as I was going and also again it’s back to questions I.

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Jeffrey Madoff: met people that I asked questions to who are helpful, there were a number of people who weren’t but those who were and we didn’t call it networking back then.

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Jeffrey Madoff: But basically that’s what it was, it was finding mentors it was networking was finding people you could trust, who could help lead you in the right direction, or possibly introduce you to somebody.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Who could help you so you know the fundamentals of business haven’t changed so requires all that stuff it’s just it was a different jargon back then.

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Mike Malatesta: And what at some point you decided that you wanted to move to New York full time is that what happened and you had to make a decision about the business.

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Jeffrey Madoff: that’s right uh.

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Jeffrey Madoff: What I found out initially I like coming into New York and then going back to my house and Wisconsin Okay, but.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I really started after I got over the initial intimidation.

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Jeffrey Madoff: of New York City.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Because I was very unlike what I grew up with.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I loved it, you know i’m stimulus junkie I discovered that about myself, and so I love walking around the city.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I love the vibe here I love the fact that I can, and I walk almost everywhere.

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Jeffrey Madoff: But you know my wife and I can go see a play or a concert at Lincoln Center have a great dinner and it’s all walking distance from where we live.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And you know and the people that come to New York, as the song goes if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere that’s actually true you know if you’re in the arts, you want to be in New York, if you’re in finance you want to be in New York and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know, which is also a strange marriage, but it’s not like Silicon Valley it’s not a one industry location, there are so many things going on here there’s fashion there’s theater there’s music.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know, there are so many things Wall Street.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know all of these things that make up this Kaleidoscope called New York City and I just love being here, so I was faced with the decision of.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Well, I want to move to New York and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: My financial backer had made it clear from the beginning that one of the reasons that he invested in me is because I employed, I had to seek financial backing, because my company is growing so fast sure.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And you know, one of the reasons that he was interested in me was I was employing a lot of people and that those people would bank in his bank.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And he owned five banks in Wisconsin and he liked the fact that I was providing jobs for Wisconsin nights and and he had been clear with me that if I ever moved the business.

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Jeffrey Madoff: He wouldn’t continue to back me so for the first couple years of the business I hadn’t thought of moving here so that just wasn’t an issue.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And then we were dealing with a recession.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And I wanted to be in New York, where people understood the business.

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Mike Malatesta: Okay.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And you’re hearing the New York symphony in the back.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah here’s yeah that’s that’s what I call that yeah.

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and

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Jeffrey Madoff: So I had to make a decision at quite a young age, I think I was 24.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know, do I shut down the business.

348

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Jeffrey Madoff: or.

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Jeffrey Madoff: stay in Wisconsin and keep doing what i’m doing and my decision was because I learned at a Another thing I learned at a young age is that.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Money comes and goes.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Time only goes and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I made the decision that I was going to go to New York, and so, if I had to start again i’d start again, but I wanted to follow where my heart and passion was and i’m not saying that in a state of blind bliss, by the way, I you know i’m saying that that.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I knew I wanted to change the direction of my life, I wanted to be around more people who were doing more interesting things, instead of being kind of a novelty in Wisconsin and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: In that that energy that New York had that pulse that it had something I wanted to be a part of so I close the business we liquidated and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I traveled for about a year all over the place, and then started another company and other clothing come because I did have a good reputation my clothes did, sell and I built up another business and sold it.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And while I was in the process of selling that met some people ended up transitioning into the film business.

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Mike Malatesta: And the this this banker that was supporting you there was no discussion or no way to have you, you know move to New York and keep you know the that part of the business up, and you know running that seems like something that.

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Mike Malatesta: would be possible, maybe, maybe back then maybe not I don’t know.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Well, I think one of the contributing factors was, as I mentioned, there was a recession.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So there were a lot of stores that went out of business.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And he had a lot of other investments, and so we were struggling because there were sort of like bloomingdale’s that.

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Jeffrey Madoff: were taking 120 days to pay.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So normally we so long net 30 terms, so cash flow became a real issue.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And so I think that the combination of.

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Jeffrey Madoff: at a difficult time he could get out and be made pretty much whole when a lot of stuff was you know going in a difficult way, and the fact that I wanted to move the business.

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Jeffrey Madoff: to New York, and you know again he had been clear about that, before could there have been a way to work that out, I mean maybe so, but it was time for the next chapter.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And I think for a business point of view was.

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Jeffrey Madoff: He was he was happy to minimize a loss and go forward.

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Mike Malatesta: got it well, thank you, that helps explain it yeah appreciate that, so the soldier second business started and sold your second business and you moved into film was that.

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Mike Malatesta: Something that you’ve been thinking about for a long time, or was it one of those things where an opportunity presented itself and you’re like oh yeah.

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Jeffrey Madoff: we’ll see it in order for an opportunity to present itself to be considered an opportunity after recognize it for.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah, so I think that a lot of people just don’t recognize opportunities and they think that things you know kind of dropped in their lap or they don’t happen.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And so it’s being able to recognize an opportunity and then act on it, so no I had again i’m consistent, I had no overarching plan.

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Jeffrey Madoff: But I love the idea of doing it and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Film was very attractive to me because I felt like first of all I love stories, I always have I used to draw comic books that got passed around the school when I was a kid.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I wrote a play that was performed when I was in fifth grade school for the whole school and just I always liked telling stories.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And I always liked.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know I always think it’s important to look back at So what did you do that gave you enjoyment, you know what was fulfilling and I asked my guests in class, you know food have known you as a kid is there any indication we’ve seen an indication of what you’re doing now.

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Jeffrey Madoff: and

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know, so when I look back, because I didn’t think about it consciously at the time, you know and, by the way, when we look back it’s kind of our you know people will say like you hear the phrase it’s meant to be.

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Jeffrey Madoff: All right, well, I believe that at all.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Okay it’s not meant to be, but you construct a narrative around it, so it seems like it was meant to be.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know we’re great at fooling ourselves and trying to make sense of things that don’t really make sense intrinsically.

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Mike Malatesta: But yeah and explaining things with the with the historical you know explaining things today with the with the knowledge that you didn’t have back that.

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Mike Malatesta: Right exactly yeah okay.

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Jeffrey Madoff: that’s right that’s right so uh you know, so I think that the decisions that I have made in retrospect.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Some of them makes sense, but I also know that you know the narrative that i’ve constructed about my life.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You know that all fits in because you know i’ve always gone towards the things that I found really interesting and wanted to explore and story is a big thing about that and doing film doing commercials creating the kind of content that I did a.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Big big part of that was storytelling and putting together a compelling story, so I love doing that I enjoyed doing that.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I worked with incredibly talented people I mean within within a few years of being in the business, I was working with academy award winning cinematographers and you know great people that I could learn from.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Sure, and I also felt wow This is something that.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I am only going to get better at and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: As I age i’m not in front of the camera and behind it and you know if you look at many of the great filmmakers they continued into quite late in life, doing the things that they do and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: All of that was appealing to me, and so I made that transition I taught myself how to shoot how to edit.

395

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Jeffrey Madoff: read books on on directing on editing on all these things and literally locked myself in an edit room because I took on a project and taught myself how to edit over the course of a three day weekend, so I could put together this project to present.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And if i’m interested in something.

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Jeffrey Madoff: That it’s not complicated to me, I can figure it out if i’m not interested.

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Jeffrey Madoff: it’s complicated for me to unscrew a jar.

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Jeffrey Madoff: So, so my i’m motivated again by the things that interest me and that I feel that I can do, and have an impact, with it, I find interesting and engaging i’ve never been.

400

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Jeffrey Madoff: i’ve never been seduced by the deal there’s a great deal.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And I know.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And it’s honestly I mean I work with private equity companies now i’m doing a project now, for you know another one and investment banks who often are the ones that are brokering the sale of for private equity company.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah and you reference that in the introduction and, in doing that it’s storytelling.

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Jeffrey Madoff: it’s it’s interesting to do I learn about other businesses, and I can i’m able to do it, whether it’s a fashion company.

405

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Jeffrey Madoff: or an automobile company or a fan company or national retail chain or artificial intelligence, you know, because the tenants of the storytelling.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And what a brand is are the same across all these disciplines, so I know how to do that and enjoy doing that so that’s like another area that I started to explore from a business point of view.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And I recognize that there was an opportunity again it’s not opportunity knocks you have to be listening, you know didn’t you hear the door knock right in everything you know so yeah I have to be aware, in order to know the data that there is a possibility for something.

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Mike Malatesta: And then you have to open it.

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Jeffrey Madoff: that’s right that’s right.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah that’s brilliant, but I know I said that at the end, but what you’re doing it’s so needed, I think that being you know, having gone through a couple sale processes and also being an investor it’s.

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Mike Malatesta: You get just get tired of the same old you know here’s the book read the book, you know, while the company’s not a book.

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Mike Malatesta: These are.

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Mike Malatesta: Books you know, and he said there’s a bigger story here, and it should be told, so I love that you’re you’re getting the opportunity to help people tell those stories.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah I do too, and I enjoy it, I mean it’s it’s fun and again it’s another area that I can learn about and, and so I like that.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah and you meet amazing people who have created these companies that you’ve never knew anything about you know they fly under the radar but they’re doing they’re doing great work and they’re super successful and you think.

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Mike Malatesta: You know, only the people you see on TV are successful, no it’s not true, there are a lot of people who are very successful that you never see on TV.

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Mike Malatesta: So let me let’s talk about your book for as long as we’re talking about storytelling creative careers, making a living with your ideas, you said that.

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Mike Malatesta: Your Professor as visual aids.

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Mike Malatesta: visual aids there it is thank you, the.

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Mike Malatesta: These are stories that came out of your work at at parsons and so that, when I heard her say.

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Jeffrey Madoff: yeah what it is, is it’s my narrative and embedded within that narrative our stories of over 50 amazing people from.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Performance arts visual arts entrepreneurs.

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Jeffrey Madoff: academics authors all kinds of different people who share their journey and and it’s interesting why I think it’s interesting because they don’t all agree with each other.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And I didn’t filter this based on so who agrees with my point of view, or I just want to have this point of view on it.

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Jeffrey Madoff: I want people to be able to think so, at the end of each chapter there’s questions that you ask yourself and.

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Jeffrey Madoff: What ended up being a cool byproduct of the book is I was getting feedback from people that some people started those who bought the actual physical book started writing on the page, then they realized they didn’t have enough space and they started keeping a separate journal.

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Jeffrey Madoff: Of what their reflections were on a particular chapter or on an approach or the decision if you’re faced with this decision or that decision, what would you make, and why what did so, and so say.

428

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Jeffrey Madoff: In that chapter that resonated or didn’t resonate with you, and why didn’t it or why did it.

429

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Jeffrey Madoff: And then I was getting this feedback that people said I finished and I had this whole personal journal The now I refer back to.

430

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Jeffrey Madoff: That makes me think about decisions that i’ve made or decisions that i’m going to make, and you know my students are now doing that and I actually tell them.

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Jeffrey Madoff: You don’t have to turn this in we’re going to discuss it, but I want this to be your journals I don’t want you to write for me.

432

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Jeffrey Madoff: Because you think i’m going to be grading you on it, I want this to be a useful tool for you, so you can make it as personal as you want.

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Jeffrey Madoff: And you’re not going to be held up to any criticism or anything like that will discuss the ideas, but your journal is your own it’s your diary.

434

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Jeffrey Madoff: So I want it to be useful for you and and i’m hoping that frees them up, so they really do some self examination to determine a path that is best for them or understanding why they make the decisions they make or whatever.

435

01:00:35.670 –> 01:00:41.910

Mike Malatesta: And is that the book you set out to write Jeff or did it sort of change or modify along the way.

436

01:00:43.410 –> 01:00:53.820

Jeffrey Madoff: I knew that it was going to be a book about my class, so what I wanted to do is have it reflect the classroom experience as best I could, but instead of having one guest at a time I had over 50.

437

01:00:54.390 –> 01:01:04.050

Jeffrey Madoff: And I didn’t want to make it a book of interviews, so I embedded it in an overarching narrative of my life.

438

01:01:04.740 –> 01:01:09.720

Jeffrey Madoff: And then, how these people, you know here’s what I did, in this case and here’s what these people did in this case.

439

01:01:10.170 –> 01:01:21.210

Jeffrey Madoff: And you know it’s unique stories that they each tell it’s not a book of you’re gonna hear from this person this person this person this person there’s an overarching story that they all fit into.

440

01:01:21.720 –> 01:01:24.360

Jeffrey Madoff: and talk about the different things that they’ve experienced.

441

01:01:24.660 –> 01:01:29.430

Mike Malatesta: Okay got it so to two final things I want to talk to you about.

442

01:01:30.450 –> 01:01:39.960

Mike Malatesta: Hopefully, if you’ve got time first is your podcast now, I mentioned the one you do with Dan Sullivan, you I don’t know if you have another one, but that’s the one that i’ve that i’ve listened to.

443

01:01:41.100 –> 01:01:42.150

Mike Malatesta: anything and everything.

444

01:01:43.860 –> 01:01:54.900

Mike Malatesta: In you know I we sort of shared my own sort of podcasting journey before we started recording here and i’m wondering what yours what yours is and what you want it to be.

445

01:01:56.100 –> 01:02:09.390

Jeffrey Madoff: So there’s there’s two things, or three things one is like this i’ve been doing a lot of podcasts to promote my book and to get that out there, because I think there’s a real value in it i’m proud of it.

446

01:02:11.130 –> 01:02:22.470

Jeffrey Madoff: So that is something that you know I started experiencing podcast from the guests side were in my class i’m kind of in your position i’m trying to bring out the best in my guest.

447

01:02:23.100 –> 01:02:32.670

Jeffrey Madoff: So there can be lessons learned by my audience, which are the students sure uh I will be launching a podcast because I create all this content.

448

01:02:33.150 –> 01:02:48.780

Jeffrey Madoff: In my class and people have been saying to me truly for five years, why don’t you do a podcast you’ve already got such great mature because I record all my camp classes, so I will be doing that and let you know when that happens.

449

01:02:48.840 –> 01:02:49.140

Okay.

450

01:02:50.190 –> 01:02:57.120

Jeffrey Madoff: And then, Dan Sullivan, the founder of strategic coach approached me and said.

451

01:02:58.260 –> 01:03:11.490

Jeffrey Madoff: So we enjoy talking to each other, which is very true, and he said why don’t we do a podcast and So what do you What would it be about and he said anything and everything they said all right well that sounds broad enough.

452

01:03:13.200 –> 01:03:13.620

Mike Malatesta: Yes, sir.

453

01:03:14.520 –> 01:03:34.440

Jeffrey Madoff: And so, Dan and I get together and you know you’ve heard some of the results of it, and you know, we do have certain points we try to make but also wander all over the place and yeah I think we’ve been very true the name anything and everything because it includes personal reminiscences.

454

01:03:35.760 –> 01:03:52.170

Jeffrey Madoff: Probably revealing more about each of us than any individual podcast does and talking about things, because you know you are who you are, and you do what you do because of who you are and what your upbringing was and what things buffeted you around and that sort of thing so.

455

01:03:53.400 –> 01:04:11.310

Jeffrey Madoff: I tend to ask those kinds of questions, and you know, Dan and I sometimes look at things in a very similar way, sometimes we look at things in a very different way, but the greatest thing is that there’s just a we both share a great deal of curiosity.

456

01:04:11.610 –> 01:04:11.910

Mike Malatesta: yeah.

457

01:04:11.940 –> 01:04:13.710

Jeffrey Madoff: For fan inquisitiveness.

458

01:04:14.100 –> 01:04:20.070

Jeffrey Madoff: And, and although some of our opinions may differ that’s actually better for the listener.

459

01:04:20.700 –> 01:04:35.400

Jeffrey Madoff: You know sort through stuff, what do you think you don’t have to agree with either one of us and it’s just more about and we both believe in this to the exchange of ideas so we’re having a lot of fun doing it, I sometimes wonder.

460

01:04:36.510 –> 01:04:48.360

Jeffrey Madoff: Are people going to care about this, you know, are they going to find an interesting i’m certainly enjoying the time that Dan and I are spending together and doing it, and I hope that I hope it builds a listener base that does too.

461

01:04:48.750 –> 01:04:59.790

Mike Malatesta: yeah well, I find it interesting and the reason for me is to you know to people who are smart funny and curious and can talk about a wide range of things.

462

01:05:00.720 –> 01:05:06.990

Mike Malatesta: And they don’t even know that they’re going to be doing that you know they don’t even know where they’re where the conversation is going to lead.

463

01:05:07.290 –> 01:05:13.110

Mike Malatesta: that’s how real conversations happened in the world right you meet up with your friend and you start talking and you end up.

464

01:05:13.830 –> 01:05:19.860

Mike Malatesta: Talking about something you never thought about when you came in, because you were prompted by something the other person said so, I find it.

465

01:05:20.400 –> 01:05:32.730

Mike Malatesta: I love I love those kinds of exchanges, particularly when you have people who can operate in that flow because that’s not a flow that everyone can operate in some people are very you know they’ve got to stay in the lane and.

466

01:05:33.360 –> 01:05:34.680

Mike Malatesta: You guys don’t stay in.

467

01:05:35.730 –> 01:05:36.180

Mike Malatesta: The lane.

468

01:05:37.440 –> 01:05:41.580

Jeffrey Madoff: yeah we’re too too drunk drivers yeah yeah exactly.

469

01:05:41.610 –> 01:05:43.590

Jeffrey Madoff: waving all over the place that’s right.

470

01:05:44.490 –> 01:05:46.800

Mike Malatesta: And so let’s finish up with your with your play.

471

01:05:48.270 –> 01:05:51.750

Mike Malatesta: This is the story of Luke price and i’ll let you take it from there.

472

01:05:53.790 –> 01:06:10.710

Jeffrey Madoff: Well, I met Lloyd price about nine years ago Lloyd price was a singer songwriter he unfortunately died this past, may I would recommend any of your listeners to Google Lloyd price because they probably won’t know his name.

473

01:06:11.220 –> 01:06:22.200

Jeffrey Madoff: But they will know his music and his music has resonated for decades Lloyd has some particular milestones in that Lloyd.

474

01:06:23.490 –> 01:06:30.240

Jeffrey Madoff: was the first teenager to sell over a million records and as a result of that lloyd’s black.

475

01:06:30.570 –> 01:06:35.880

Jeffrey Madoff: And, as a result of that, at that time, which was the early 50s his first song was latinas cloud.

476

01:06:36.330 –> 01:06:36.720

Jeffrey Madoff: Recording.

477

01:06:37.650 –> 01:06:55.740

Jeffrey Madoff: which has been opened by Elvis the Beatles Bruce springsteen and about 300 others if you wanted to buy a record by a black artist, you had to go to a black record store they were called race records and nobody is prejudiced against green and so when his song hit.

478

01:06:56.850 –> 01:07:15.690

Jeffrey Madoff: Nobody wanted to miss out on that money because prior to Lloyd, the music business was essentially an adult business and kids weren’t buying records so his life unfolded at the crossroads of the birth of rock and roll the birth of the youth movement and the civil rights movement.

479

01:07:16.740 –> 01:07:24.510

Jeffrey Madoff: And so it’s an incredible story, and the first thing to Lloyd character says on stage is.

480

01:07:25.530 –> 01:07:26.850

Jeffrey Madoff: My mama wasn’t a whore.

481

01:07:28.050 –> 01:07:29.370

Jeffrey Madoff: My Daddy didn’t leave.

482

01:07:30.660 –> 01:07:38.940

Jeffrey Madoff: I never did drugs and I didn’t learn how to sing in church when I get out of the way up front, so all of the cliches are kind of shattered.

483

01:07:39.930 –> 01:07:41.910

Jeffrey Madoff: And Lloyd was an extraordinary guy.

484

01:07:42.930 –> 01:07:46.470

Jeffrey Madoff: He was an entrepreneur, he is.

485

01:07:48.510 –> 01:07:54.870

Jeffrey Madoff: I lost a dear friend in May and His story the additional.

486

01:07:56.220 –> 01:08:04.830

Jeffrey Madoff: The additional joy and responsibility that I feel is that this play will make his legacy.

487

01:08:05.850 –> 01:08:21.090

Jeffrey Madoff: are more present and aware to people who don’t really know who he is and the incredible impact, he had on popular culture, and particularly in rock and roll, but he also had a he produced the rumble in the jungle and the thrilla in Manila one of his best friends was Muhammad Ali.

488

01:08:21.240 –> 01:08:22.410

Jeffrey Madoff: This is not in the play.

489

01:08:22.740 –> 01:08:27.180

Jeffrey Madoff: But he got, for better or for worse don king in the boxing.

490

01:08:28.350 –> 01:08:38.670

Jeffrey Madoff: So Lloyd story is phenomenal and we carry it with the story coveted particular part of his life from his youth up to his fame.

491

01:08:39.120 –> 01:08:42.870

Jeffrey Madoff: And then, what happened that changed him next and.

492

01:08:44.160 –> 01:08:49.650

Jeffrey Madoff: I had said to Lloyd, I did it was hired to do a documentary about him, which I did and.

493

01:08:52.020 –> 01:09:01.140

Jeffrey Madoff: In learning about him the research that I did to do the documentary I knew that I wanted to tell his story, and I said to him, I know I can capture your voice.

494

01:09:02.220 –> 01:09:13.410

Jeffrey Madoff: And I know I can tell your story, and then I wrote the first few scenes and he loved them and said I want you to do this and.

495

01:09:14.280 –> 01:09:25.170

Jeffrey Madoff: He said to me what what was probably the biggest compliment I could get he said to me after he read the play so you know I don’t know if I actually said that but I sure could have.

496

01:09:27.210 –> 01:09:48.180

Jeffrey Madoff: And I thought that was just really, really cool and I came to love Lord we became very close and no I wanted him to be there, next to me opening night, which is march 6 of 22 he did see the earlier iterations of the of the show so i’m grateful for that.

497

01:09:49.320 –> 01:09:49.770

Jeffrey Madoff: But.

498

01:09:50.910 –> 01:10:03.720

Jeffrey Madoff: You know my aside from my wife, will be to my right in the audience sitting to my left will be lloyd’s wife and I asked her if she would go with me to opening night and.

499

01:10:05.400 –> 01:10:12.180

Jeffrey Madoff: This has been an incredibly it’s difficult if I knew how long it took them out to play, I would have started when I was younger.

500

01:10:12.900 –> 01:10:22.290

Jeffrey Madoff: But on all the creative levels it’s incredibly fulfilling and it also I go from here, which is why i’ve got to jump shortly, at noon.

501

01:10:23.160 –> 01:10:41.700

Jeffrey Madoff: Eastern time I have a meeting with my executive producer and general manager because we’re talking about the strategies leading up to what we’re going to be doing at people’s like theater so that’s all kicking in, and you know, we had to put it off for a year because of covert.

502

01:10:41.940 –> 01:10:43.230

Jeffrey Madoff: Sure, and.

503

01:10:44.460 –> 01:10:51.300

Jeffrey Madoff: there’s a lot of pent up demand out there and for plays and I think we have something that.

504

01:10:52.440 –> 01:10:58.470

Jeffrey Madoff: i’m very proud of and i’m working with an extraordinary group of people who were bringing this to life, and I feel.

505

01:10:59.940 –> 01:11:03.960

Jeffrey Madoff: I feel I have built a tremendous team and.

506

01:11:05.400 –> 01:11:12.780

Jeffrey Madoff: really grateful for the people that i’ve been able to get involved in this and, by the way they didn’t come in, because of me initially some.

507

01:11:13.140 –> 01:11:22.650

Jeffrey Madoff: But good people attract other good people my director sheldon Apps is a very notable director people want to work with him I set designers one five.

508

01:11:23.040 –> 01:11:35.520

Jeffrey Madoff: Tony awards people want to work with him and again you build a team through finding good people through other good people and and that’s what we’ve done so i’m very excited about it, I hope you will come out and see it.

509

01:11:35.640 –> 01:11:40.620

Jeffrey Madoff: Yes, stomping grounds yeah March, yes it is I grew up there, and it grew up in that area.

510

01:11:40.680 –> 01:11:42.300

Mike Malatesta: spend a lot of my years there.

511

01:11:43.320 –> 01:11:48.690

Mike Malatesta: march 620 20 our tickets on sale now to 2022 2020 sorry 2020.

512

01:11:49.200 –> 01:12:03.330

Jeffrey Madoff: Yes, tickets are on sale, now they actually just went on sale, and if you Google people’s light theater and you look at their calendar you’ll see the announcements for personality, the Lloyd price musical.

513

01:12:03.810 –> 01:12:04.140

Mike Malatesta: Okay.

514

01:12:05.010 –> 01:12:08.970

Jeffrey Madoff: We haven’t even sent that out to our investors yet so matter of fact, I mean so that new.

515

01:12:09.420 –> 01:12:12.510

Mike Malatesta: Oh okay well good i’m glad to be breaking the story here but.

516

01:12:13.620 –> 01:12:17.970

Mike Malatesta: yeah I will definitely go there and I will get tickets for my my family and.

517

01:12:18.180 –> 01:12:20.760

Mike Malatesta: terrific at this, yes, yes.

518

01:12:20.790 –> 01:12:21.510

Jeffrey Madoff: Well, thank you.

519

01:12:22.470 –> 01:12:36.840

Mike Malatesta: Well Jeff Thank you so much for being on the show today I you’re the first person to ever answer the how that happened question with birth as as as the answer, so I appreciate that new wrinkle to this it’s actually very smart.

520

01:12:37.980 –> 01:12:41.790

Mike Malatesta: And it’s just been fun talking to you I love your sense of humor I love.

521

01:12:43.560 –> 01:12:50.400

Mike Malatesta: Your wisdom, the the your perspective on life and how things happen.

522

01:12:51.960 –> 01:12:54.990

Mike Malatesta: Sorry, to throw the name of the podcast in there again but it’s very.

523

01:12:56.940 –> 01:13:06.360

Mike Malatesta: inspiring I guess and and your successes obviously speaks for itself, so this has been a real treat for me and for pretty audience and i’m i’m.

524

01:13:06.780 –> 01:13:18.060

Mike Malatesta: i’m so happy to have had you on the show how I mentioned your website and all those things at the beginning, is there is there any other thing you want to share, about how people can connect with you or work with.

525

01:13:18.090 –> 01:13:18.960

Mike Malatesta: You know, whatever.

526

01:13:19.320 –> 01:13:24.060

Jeffrey Madoff: yeah good place to message me or whatever is linkedin, as you said.

527

01:13:24.660 –> 01:13:38.340

Jeffrey Madoff: But there’s also a website or creative career.com and on instagram at a creative career calm the at symbol and you’ll see clips from my class.

528

01:13:38.880 –> 01:13:54.630

Jeffrey Madoff: On there and, here are some of the shared knowledge and wisdom from guests that i’ve had, and that will give you an idea and the my book is available at all fine booksellers makes the perfect gift for anyone you’ve ever met or ever will meet in your life and.

529

01:13:55.440 –> 01:13:57.990

Jeffrey Madoff: You know yeah I tried to cover as much as possible.

530

01:13:58.020 –> 01:14:00.420

Mike Malatesta: yeah, why not, I mean no wide net out there.

531

01:14:00.930 –> 01:14:04.410

Jeffrey Madoff: Right and you acknowledge and you will throw in the ginsu knife.

532

01:14:05.820 –> 01:14:07.770

Mike Malatesta: awesome never doubt sharpen it.

533

01:14:08.040 –> 01:14:08.790

Jeffrey Madoff: Never needed.

534

01:14:08.820 –> 01:14:10.860

Jeffrey Madoff: And if you ever need to cut a shoe and half.

535

01:14:11.250 –> 01:14:12.630

Mike Malatesta: You got the right to it’s there.

536

01:14:15.840 –> 01:14:16.860

Mike Malatesta: yeah Thank you so much.

537

01:14:17.130 –> 01:14:23.400

Jeffrey Madoff: Well Mike I really enjoyed speaking with you this morning, and thank you, wonderful conversation and.

538

01:14:24.420 –> 01:14:28.260

Jeffrey Madoff: Those a lot of fun, you are a great guy that I really appreciate it thanks.