Chapters 19 & 26 – The Four Fallacies & Getting Selfish (#234)

Have you ever wondered why the people who are proven to be the most successful tend to be more approachable? It is challenging to get the chance to interview people much more when they have so much on their plates. Based on dealing with many successful people for the show, I will share with you why I think successful people, who are supposed to be the busiest, are more responsive when asked for an interview for shows like this.

Grab the book Owner Shift here!

Full transcript below

Episode timestamps:

[0:53] Introducing our special guest, John Corcoran
[4:15] Mike’s “broke” stage
[6:32] Digging further into “in that place because it was where I designed myself to be”
[11:00] The switch in mindset is essential
[16:40] What EVERY entrepreneur should start thinking
[20:28] Painting a different picture for the future
[25:37] What John felt after reading Chapter 26 and what I really wanted to convey in this chapter
[35:39] The implications if you’re not pouring from a “filled” cup
[37:30] Outro

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TRANSCRIPT

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Mike Malatesta: hey everybody welcome back to the show, I am happy to have you here for this episode, as I am with every episode and today.

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Mike Malatesta: we’re going to do another one of those sort of special and different episodes; we’re going to talk about.

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Mike Malatesta: My new book “Owner Shift – How Getting Selfish Got Me Unstuck,” and today I have joining me John Corcoran and .

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Mike Malatesta: I’ll tell you his bio but first I’ll tell you how we got introduced a friend of mine ran into Todd Barton.

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Mike Malatesta: And John got talking and Todd said to me man, you should meet this John Corcoran because you’re thinking about doing a podcast this was several years ago, and you know he’s he’s doing what he’s really connected with that kind of thing so John not knowing me at all was.

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Mike Malatesta: super kind and went out of his way to give me a bunch of his own experience and advice when it came to starting a podcast and really he ended up giving me.

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Mike Malatesta: He was one of two people who ended up giving me the confidence to get started in the first place, and now.

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Mike Malatesta: I don’t know what episode, this is when you listen to it but it’s 220 something probably and wow from yeah thanks and starting at nothing a couple years, three years ago and.

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Mike Malatesta: You know, with John’s push I just feel really grateful to be in the position I am and and to have him here today for this special episode, so let me tell you a little bit about John.

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Mike Malatesta: John is the Co founder of rise 25.

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Mike Malatesta: They help B2B businesses connect with clients and referral partners.

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Mike Malatesta: And to get and get a return on investment Roi using a podcast John’s been a speech writer in the Clinton White House and he’s been published widely in places like forbes the huffington post entrepreneur magazine and many more.

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Mike Malatesta: And that’s just a little thumbnail but it gives you it gives you a good idea to that that this guy is top top notch top notch person, you can find out more about John at the website www dot rise 25.

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Mike Malatesta: dot com so today, we are going to talk about two chapters from the book we’re going to talk about Chapter 19 which is called the four fallacies.

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Mike Malatesta: And we’re going to talk about Chapter 26 which is called getting selfish so I’m going to start Well, first of all John I forgot to do this, welcome to the show.

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Mike Malatesta: Thank thanks for joining us.

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John Corcoran: Thank you, my pleasure to be here and wow you produce the way more episodes than I did my first three years, my first two years I put out probably 50 or something so kudos to you that’s great.

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Mike Malatesta: Well, I appreciate you getting me going, you know, once you got me going it’s hard to it’s hard for me to stop.

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John Corcoran: I know I that’s what I say, I mean there’s an endlessly fascinated with.

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John Corcoran: people to talk to.

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Mike Malatesta: Well there’s so many that’s what’s great about podcasts and there are so many successful and interesting people in the world, and now, especially with.

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Mike Malatesta: The online platforms, you can just share, you can just get to anyone anyone in the world and share amazing stories that for for me helped me accomplish my goal of inspiring and activating greatness, and everyone who’s listening.

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John Corcoran: yeah and help unlock that wisdom, I mean, I say to people all the time, like you have got such great wisdom experience stories to share, I want to share that with whoever I can, and you know people love you know oftentimes they love doing that.

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Mike Malatesta: So let’s um let’s get into chapter 19 I’m gonna I’m gonna let everybody know what was in my mind when I was writing this.

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Mike Malatesta: Chapter and then John’s going to explore that a little bit and hopefully offer some of his own experiences as well.

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Mike Malatesta: So I I was in a this stage of my entrepreneurial career that I called a broke stage and pretty much it in my experience, everyone gets there.

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Mike Malatesta: At some point, the differences, how they get there, and how long they stay there, and if they ever get out so there’s sort of three differences but for me.

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Mike Malatesta: My partner butch passed away in a fire at one of our facilities in 2003 and and we’ve been in business about 10 years at that point, and I was really suffering from the grind.

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Mike Malatesta: And from a bunch of other things that had happened when this occurred and it just it just I didn’t know what to do, I was just broken by that by that.

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Mike Malatesta: And so I was in this place, I call the value of uncertainty for a while just kind of wallowing around trying to decide who I could blame and whose fault it was who’s going to help me who’s going to show me the way all these sort of victim.

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Mike Malatesta: mentality type thoughts were going through my head and over time.

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Mike Malatesta: I.

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Mike Malatesta: I did a couple of things, one I became aware that I was in that place because that’s where I designed myself to be.

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Mike Malatesta: I didn’t like to admit that but that’s what happened and that’s why I was there and I did a couple of exercises once I had that awareness and one I wrote an inventory of of things that I called you know.

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Mike Malatesta: It was basically a list of inventory of all the things that I thought I could be doing better or hadn’t done very well, and then I sort of went through those and came up with these.

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Mike Malatesta: What I call the four fallacies which are four belief systems that I had about being an entrepreneur and running a company that I put a lot of faith in and a lot of trust in and I believed in these things and.

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Mike Malatesta: And I determined after a lot of introspection that I was just wrong about these things and that’s what.

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Mike Malatesta: that’s what.

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Mike Malatesta: That that that’s what was going on, when I in my mind when I wrote this this chapter so John I’ll have you take it from here.

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John Corcoran: yeah well first i’d like to dig a little bit further into the first part, what you said about you, was in that place because it was where I designed myself to be you want to expand on that a little more.

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yeah.

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Mike Malatesta: Some so I.

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Mike Malatesta: I guess the short story is I had this belief system about what it took to be successful, as an entrepreneur business leader business owner whatever whatever or leader of any kind and.

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Mike Malatesta: At the beginning of the business I applied those and I, and I think I got it pretty pretty much right, I was doing all the things that I needed to be doing in order to.

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Mike Malatesta: You know, to make the business.

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Mike Malatesta: get off help the business get off the ground and and thrive I call that the dream stage of the business, by the way, but.

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Mike Malatesta: But, over time, as our business grew and it grew you know fairly well but by the time this you know, I was broken in this after his death, we were probably $10 million company here so.

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Mike Malatesta: But I was still.

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Mike Malatesta: You know, running it with the same belief systems that it was when it was two people time and.

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Mike Malatesta: that’s what I mean that’s what I mean by that So when I was so it it never occurred to me that I was not doing everything right what occurred to me all during that time was that I just need to do more if it’s not working, I just need to do more.

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Mike Malatesta: But um.

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Mike Malatesta: And instead you know once I got in the valley and once I.

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Mike Malatesta: I really started to think about it, if it became clear to me that I that I designed a system that was perfectly orchestrated to to end me up where, where I was to get me where I was and if I could do that.

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Mike Malatesta: Then there’s surely a chance that I could design a system perfectly to get me somewhere else you know.

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John Corcoran: well.

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Mike Malatesta: it’s really want to be.

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John Corcoran: isn’t it I think there’s the I think I read the book what you got what got you here won’t get you there right yeah I think the good.

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John Corcoran: Yes, kind of the classic saying.

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John Corcoran: You know, and so that first fallacy that you write about so eloquently is that you believe that you could handle everything that came your way.

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John Corcoran: And you also say that you felt that asking for help felt like cheating, which is kind of interesting i’d love to dig into that a little bit further, why did you feel like it was cheating to ask for help.

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Mike Malatesta: Well, you know I’m in school your you know your collaboration and it may be better now, but when I was in school collaboration was fine until it came time to take the test.

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Mike Malatesta: Right and when you took a test, there was no collaboration right.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah all you, you had it was just you against you know the world, are you against the test or whatever, and I just kind of.

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Mike Malatesta: apply that to my whole life like if it’s writing to if it’s cheating to get help on a test and it’s cheating to need help with anything else, and I know that sounds.

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John Corcoran: kind of sad, no, no, I can see that you kind of internalize it, and so you feel like Well, this is the test which died I’m being challenged, how can I ask for others to collaborate with me on this that’s not allowed, I need to figure this out on my own.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah I saw it as a sign of weakness, I saw it as being lazy I saw it as being.

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Mike Malatesta: You know wrong.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah all those things.

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John Corcoran: Right right right yeah that’s a great point so that was the first fallacy that you needed to understand needed to overcome next one, was that you were responsible for everything that came your way good batter and different.

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John Corcoran: yeah and that was the next one.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah and so that one required a mind mind sort of a mind trick.

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The.

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Mike Malatesta: I internalized everything that happened, as if it were my fault.

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Mike Malatesta: And whether it was or whether it wasn’t that I basically made it my fault and and and you know and a reflection of me, as a person.

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Mike Malatesta: And I think that was.

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Mike Malatesta: The wrong thing to do so, so I didn’t realize it till I was in the valley and then I started to think and when I had this awareness is think well there’s a difference between being responsible personally responsible and having the responsibility for.

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Mike Malatesta: So.

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Mike Malatesta: You know, some people might say, well that’s just semantics, but I don’t I didn’t think it was to me that was a complete mind shift for me so.

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Mike Malatesta: things that were happening that that in the business good bad whatever I was, I had the responsibility for all those things, but I was not you know personally responsible those things didn’t define who I was and and just making that switch really helped liberate.

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Mike Malatesta: My.

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Mike Malatesta: Well, maybe, maybe liberate and.

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John Corcoran: I took a.

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Mike Malatesta: codified what you know what my real role is.

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John Corcoran: hmm hmm it must have been such a weight on your shoulders to have all that you know you got $10 million business good things are gonna happen bad things are gonna happen stuffs gonna go sideways and to put all that on your shoulders is is a lot.

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Mike Malatesta: it’s alive yeah, but I think a lot of people do it that’s why that’s why you know it’s in the book because I don’t think it’s.

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Mike Malatesta: Like all the stories and stuff are mine but and everyone’s stories are different but it’s like I feel like a lot of us have stories that end us end up with with that sort of lesson that you know we take them.

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Mike Malatesta: personally responsible for them.

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Mike Malatesta: Right it really grinds you now where, if I can just say, I have the responsibility for them doesn’t make them, the challenge is easier, but but it’s less about taking something away from me.

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Mike Malatesta: Then just another thing that I, you know that needs to be handled are addressed.

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John Corcoran: Right, so I guess the question is, you know I mean something big happens, like the business is on the brink of failure, obviously, you have to take ownership for that you have to do everything you can in order to prevent that from happening.

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John Corcoran: But on a day to day basis you, you have to focus on being responsible for yourself, so I guess the question is how do you maintain that separation, but also, you know maintain authority as the owner of the business responsible for the business and not let things slip yeah.

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Mike Malatesta: I would say that for me at least nobody noticed that the difference I processed it differently inside of me so.

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Mike Malatesta: I don’t think it it wasn’t like I laid off it wasn’t like I you know fell asleep at the wheel or anything like that I just processed everything.

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Mike Malatesta: differently or it wasn’t a switch and it wasn’t perfect, so I you know I would slip back and I, but I made a conscious effort to process things differently John.

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John Corcoran: yeah.

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Mike Malatesta: And that just made a big difference for me.

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John Corcoran: yeah so like when you become aware of something.

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Mike Malatesta: When it happens you’re like oh it’s happening.

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Mike Malatesta: I can do something about that differently than if I hadn’t realized that it was happening.

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John Corcoran: yeah and that’s actually one of the big challenges owners have is like see things unfolding into not jump in and not try and save the day.

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John Corcoran: And to let things unfold, it took me a while and and I can’t say always get it right, but sometimes I wake up in the morning I go in go to the office, and then I see.

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John Corcoran: client emailed about some issue at seven o’clock in the morning when I’m taking care of my kids.

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John Corcoran: And then there’s this series of emails and there’s a series of slack messages where multiple TEAM members all responded weighed in and helped with it, and it was completely resolved.

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John Corcoran: You know, and I realized I didn’t have to take ownership over they took ownership over it.

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John Corcoran: I was responsible for myself what I had to do at that point during the day, and we ultimately delivered a better result for the client, which is what really mattered I imagine you had a similar type of situation where.

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John Corcoran: You know you realize, I can only be responsible for myself and others will take responsibility for what, for their responsibility.

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yeah.

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Mike Malatesta: And that’s a good point you bring up about the you know customer email, for example, one of the things I was hung up for a long time and and maybe you’ve had this experience, and I know that a lot of others have is like, if I have the customer relationship, particularly early in the.

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Mike Malatesta: Business yes, I feel like I always have to have that customer relationship like they need that they need me to be the customer relationship.

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Mike Malatesta: And even if it starts getting in the way of all of my other responsibilities and that what what I believe is that.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah you have you may have a special good relationship with the with the customer, but what the customer wants is what the customer wants they don’t really care that you delivering it or someone else on the team.

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Mike Malatesta: And it was kind of the this isn’t in this chapter, but it was that was sort of a breakthrough moment to me when I realized that because.

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Mike Malatesta: You know you have a lot of self worth tied up in.

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Mike Malatesta: You know, being needed.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah and as soon as you do the right thing, which is you know what’s best for the client what’s best for the business which which, in my case wasn’t me personally handling a lot of the details that they needed, for example.

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Mike Malatesta: And then being happy with that.

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Mike Malatesta: And sort of yeah miss yeah.

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Mike Malatesta: So On one level you’re happy and on the other, you’re kind of like oh man now what am I going to do, but that’s the questions that entrepreneurs have to keep asking himself yeah what are you going to do.

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Mike Malatesta: Right, because now you’ve you’ve freed that up you’ve got that capability built, what are you going to do now.

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John Corcoran: yeah I find I tell others that the the mindset shift that you have to make about all of this is that.

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John Corcoran: You can’t tell yourself that if I were to handle everything the clients going to receive a better experience, you have to tell yourself.

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John Corcoran: That the client the ultimate client is going to receive a much better experience when I take things off of my plate.

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John Corcoran: Because I’m going to bring in people that are going to love each piece of the process more than I could possibly love that piece.

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John Corcoran: And they’re going to take ownership over it, and they’re going to do a way better job than I possibly could and.

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John Corcoran: I’m going to see that happen, you know you see, and you see people that love different pieces of it and there’s no way that I could possibly love all those different pieces, the way that they do.

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John Corcoran: or deliver on it, and the way that they do because they’re going to be a superstar in that finite piece of the puzzle that you’re delivering for that, ultimately, for that client, so you have to tell yourself.

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John Corcoran: That, as I add more TEAM members, as I take things off my plate, as I have others take ownership, for it, as I removed myself from responsibility for all the the things that we do for the client.

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John Corcoran: we’re going to deliver an ultimate better experience for that client they’re going to be happier than they ever would, if it was just me it was just me only every different piece of that experience with the client or the customer right.

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Mike Malatesta: great insight there John.

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John Corcoran: yeah let’s go through the third, so the third fallacy, the way I was thinking about my future and you say that you know you were looking at your future and it was going to be a lot like your past and you had to get past that so talk about that one.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah I think this is something that.

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Mike Malatesta: Is it is a big obstacle for a lot of entrepreneurs, particularly if you get to the to the phase where you’re either stuck in the grind or your or you get into the broke the broke stage.

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Mike Malatesta: You design it so when you’re in the dream stage, you have this ideal of what your business is going to be like and what you’re going to feel like going through it and.

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Mike Malatesta: If you can maintain that all through the growth of your business, you are an exceptional entrepreneur and LEADER I would say, but I think 90 plus percent maybe more than that of us have trouble with that because, as the business grows and gets more complex, we see our job as getting.

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Mike Malatesta: more complex to in fact we start to have to handle all these different things that are going on, or we think we have to handle all these things that are going on and all the sudden.

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Mike Malatesta: we’re in a position where the things that dream part is like a nightmare now because.

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Mike Malatesta: there’s just so much stuff coming at you, the things that used to energize you things that you used to feel like you were a hero that are now things that piss you off or things that take your energy away or things that just.

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Just.

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Mike Malatesta: You know they bother you and.

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Mike Malatesta: You start thinking to yourself will I, why would I want to do more of this why or why would I want to grow and have more of these problems, or why would.

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Mike Malatesta: You know, all you start thinking about your future in terms of your past, so your past experiences are starting to implant themselves on what you on your ability to think about the future, instead of.

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Mike Malatesta: You being able to think about your future as something you can design to be totally different sort of as I, as I mentioned earlier.

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Mike Malatesta: And if you if you get stuck there you you, you know you’re basically started the exploration phase of your journey, you are going to.

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Mike Malatesta: either going to quit you’re going to get smaller or you’re going to resent your business and none of those none of those are are are included in the job description of what you should actually be doing.

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John Corcoran: Right right So how do you paint for yourself a different vision of the future, because I don’t know about you, but I’m pretty good at that, like.

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John Corcoran: I’m pretty good at you know dreaming and imagining what the future could look like.

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John Corcoran: But you’re right we do kind of get stuck in this, you know thinking it’s just going to continue to be the same as you know, maybe it’s like at the beginning you’ve got a picture of like.

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John Corcoran: This big business that I’m going to run in the future, then, at some point along the way you lose that.

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John Corcoran: And there are different ways of doing it, like, for example, I’ve got on my wall here, I do it every year with my kids I go and do a dream board like a vision board.

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John Corcoran: And they come into my office right behind me here and we get a bunch of magazines and we we cut out pictures of different things that we want to do in the coming year feel are things that we like.

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John Corcoran: And then the glue them on a board I did it along with them and it helps me to like look glance up like oh yeah you know these are the things I value like.

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John Corcoran: A picture of family or a picture of a vacation or a picture of biking which I like doing or you know, a nice meal out or stuff like that you know, so what are some ways that you can get back in touch with what that how the feature can look different from your past.

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Mike Malatesta: So I think there I’ll talk about a couple of ways, one is.

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Mike Malatesta: What I’ve mentioned a couple of times already, you know just the awareness that if you’ve.

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Mike Malatesta: There, where you are is something you’ve designed and if it’s something if it’s a place that you don’t want to be.

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Mike Malatesta: you’ve already done a good job of designing yourself to get there, you can certainly design yourself to get where you want to be, and I think the other thing kind of gets back to well we’ll talk about in Chapter 26 John and back getting selfish there’s there’s.

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Mike Malatesta: In order for you to be free to think about creating a future that’s different than your past and something that you own you need.

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Mike Malatesta: Time and you need exposure to people who are thinking along those lines, and you need a belief system to be you know you need your belief system may be propped up a tad, and so I think there’s a.

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Mike Malatesta: there’s a there’s a systematic way to do it, but I think it starts, like everything in life, it starts with an awareness that it’s possible for you, you can do this.

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John Corcoran: yeah yeah and their communities like that you participated in tech and why PO and different ones like that that you can participate in I’m active in Eo and it’s been a great community.

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John Corcoran: and actually a friend of mine, through their day yesterday we were he’s giving some advice and some stuff basically on this.

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John Corcoran: Recognition program we’re going to do and he’s got a pretty big team like 300 people now you know and and my team is is pretty large at this point we have about 40 or 50 people.

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John Corcoran: Depending on how you count them and we were texting back and forth, and he says, you know you’ve got a pretty small team now so you’ll be able to do this and I’m thinking I love that he said that.

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John Corcoran: You know, like.

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John Corcoran: Like cuz it’s a mindset shift right like I.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah yeah.

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John Corcoran: yeah like he put it, he put it in in.

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John Corcoran: You know in context, like a pretty small table I’m feeling like okay 50 feels pretty big right, you know but it’s like it’s pretty small good.

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John Corcoran: I love that.

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Mike Malatesta: I love branded your he expanded your capability.

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John Corcoran: yeah exactly.

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John Corcoran: Right exactly exactly and that’s the kind of people you want to surround yourself around like not people who are like oh my gosh wow 50 that’s a lot, you must be stressed out by it, but physically like that’s totally manageable, you can do much bigger than that um.

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John Corcoran: or so.

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John Corcoran: And then the last piece is isolation and you know you said that you build tall strong walls to isolate you from others that’s one of the fallacies.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah this might not apply to everyone, but, but I think it applies to a good number of people in that this certainly my experience was that.

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Mike Malatesta: You know I thought, and it kind of gets back to that.

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Mike Malatesta: You know I can handle everything I thought that if I spent all my time inside the walls of my business I would clearly be able to you know figure out everything that needed to be done John and it just never occurred to me that.

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Mike Malatesta: While I was doing this, I was sort of building this wall around my own.

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Mike Malatesta: Exposure to new ideas and new learnings and new people and that kind of thing, and I was actually becoming quite boring.

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Mike Malatesta: You know and and actually and maybe even reversing my growth as a result of doing this, but it felt very comfortable to do it because you know inside the walls, I was.

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Mike Malatesta: You know, nobody was telling me that I didn’t know what I was doing.

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Mike Malatesta: So yeah I had to take those I had to realize that and then I had to start dissembling those those walls.

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Mike Malatesta: Because the answers were the I had all the answers that were inside my business by that time John that just I knew everything that was there I didn’t know everything, but everything I didn’t know was outside.

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Mike Malatesta: Of its walls and with people that I hadn’t yet met and or been around that kind of thinking that wasn’t my thinking you know.

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John Corcoran: I’m thinking.

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John Corcoran: And I think that’s a good segue to the other chapter that we were going to talk about which is chapter 26 getting selfish.

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John Corcoran: And I can it’s funny because I read this and I could sense the tension that you feel because your your messages that you gotta get selfish at, but you also recognize that some people going to take that out of context and they’re going to think that.

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John Corcoran: you’re doing it for selfish reasons that you’re you’re not doing it for the great of the company, but that’s not what you meant So do you want to expand or explain a little bit what you meant in that chapter.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah yeah you kind of mentioned it, when we were talking about the last chapter that you know the.

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Mike Malatesta: For me, I thought.

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Mike Malatesta: That, if I put myself last and everyone else first that I was being the kind of selfless servant leader, that I read about in the in the books, you know.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah and good to great like I was.

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John Corcoran: Trying to call out five.

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Mike Malatesta: I was trying to be a level five leader and.

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Mike Malatesta: That.

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Mike Malatesta: Whether it was right yeah I think it was wrong, but whether was right wrong or whatever that contributed to this grind.

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Mike Malatesta: stage that I that I talked about, and ultimately the broke stage because.

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Mike Malatesta: While I was putting everyone else first It made me feel like I was valuable John and made me feel like I was doing a good job It made me feel needed maybe it made me feel like I was the hero, maybe.

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Mike Malatesta: But what it really was doing was getting in the way or preventing me or becoming an excuse for me not to do what I was supposed to do you know.

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Mike Malatesta: As an entrepreneur I’m supposed to create the vision for the business I’m supposed to you know, have a big go big mentality I’m supposed to.

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Mike Malatesta: You know, build great teams I’m supposed to I’m supposed to do all of these things and I wasn’t doing any of those things, because I was there, and if and I had everything sort of run up to talk through me, you know, and I would I would.

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Mike Malatesta: You know I don’t know that I was a micromanager but might as well have been because, if everything has to come through me eventually.

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yeah.

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John Corcoran: When you become the bottleneck.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah become the bottleneck, I always treating the business.

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Mike Malatesta: That that 10 year old business, and you know, maybe from five to 10 or whatever I was treating that businesses if it was still a start up infant, child.

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John Corcoran: Like it’s still the new me for all of its.

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Mike Malatesta: You know, food and sustenance and everything and clearly it didn’t but that made me feel good It made me feel like I was doing good valuable work, but it was also making me feel like this sucks.

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John Corcoran: I am yeah.

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Mike Malatesta: You know I don’t want to be doing this and why isn’t anyone.

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Mike Malatesta: telling you, you know why isn’t anybody stepping up you know tho those questions like.

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John Corcoran: yeah why.

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Mike Malatesta: I said.

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Mike Malatesta: I was listening to visit our vistage speaker this week, actually, it was phenomenal guy named.

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Mike Malatesta: muscle man muscle man and he’s he’s a coach but he just had this in a credible way about him, but one of the things he said was you know if you have expectations without agreement.

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Mike Malatesta: you’re in for a really long road and that’s what I began to have less expectations for what people would doing we’re doing, but no agreement because I never asked them to do any of those things I just expected that they would so that’s what I mean about that and, and when I talk about.

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Mike Malatesta: So the selfless being selfless first wasn’t working for me, in other words, even though I thought that’s what I should be doing, and so.

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Mike Malatesta: When I talk about getting selfish and you know it’s such a horrible word people don’t like nobody wants to be called selfish, but I use the word very intentionally because.

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Mike Malatesta: In order for me to really be a selfless LEADER I had to be selfish first because I had to know what it was that I wanted, I had to know what my what future property, I wanted to own what I wanted to make.

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You know happen.

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Mike Malatesta: Because I couldn’t convey that to anybody until I knew that I couldn’t understand what my role was until I knew that I couldn’t build a good team until I knew that and I can go on and on, of all the things I wasn’t able to do by being selfless first, as opposed to selfish first.

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John Corcoran: And that’s where the true great can come, because then the business gets bigger you’re putting food on the table for more people you’re putting a roof over the head for more people.

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John Corcoran: All those different things that are possible happen and they’re not going to happen if you’re not selfish.

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John Corcoran: And you know you burn out or you decide you don’t want to do this anymore, or something like that or I think this also touches on something I say a lot of times, which is.

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John Corcoran: Your greatest strength will eventually become your biggest constraint.

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John Corcoran: And you know, for you is probably management running a business, you know you, you did a great job of it, but then it becomes the constraint, you know eventually you realize you got to get yourself out of that.

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John Corcoran: Even though you’re really good at it, you know it’s like you know me and in our company, I mean my I’ve always identified as a writer that’s been my identity from like age eight years old.

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John Corcoran: And I’ve had been a professional writer um but I can’t I can’t possibly continue to do that, or else that will be the biggest constraint, and so we just this week hired two writers and I haven’t even met them yet.

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John Corcoran: And that’s great I love it.

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John Corcoran: You know they’re there I wasn’t even involved in the whole process, and you know what actually there are people who people who have writers, we have editors that were involved in that process.

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John Corcoran: And I probably wouldn’t make us make it through our hiring process now like, I made it so hard.

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John Corcoran: You know I want only good people coming in right and and even like I’m you know I mean your time to come, stretched thin and so, if I was evaluating that person or if I was.

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John Corcoran: reviewing their writing tests, I probably would miss things and I probably wouldn’t do as good a job of of ensuring that high caliber quality for people coming in.

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John Corcoran: So, but um yeah so and it was just meant to reinforce your point about selfishness and and.

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John Corcoran: You know, doing that will help you get clear on what you want, and and give bandwidth and space for you to focus on those pieces any final thoughts you wanted you want to share Mike on these two chapters.

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Mike Malatesta: I just I just want to say that.

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Mike Malatesta: The My purpose in writing this book is to really encourage entrepreneurs to go big and.

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Mike Malatesta: Because I see too many that have and they all have the capability, I think, almost all to go big and I see too many who get to a point where they they’re just ground down.

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Mike Malatesta: or they get broken, and then they they think you know, like idea, you know I’m responsible for this, this is a reflection of me, and it just.

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Mike Malatesta: That can just spiraling down and just get you really, really stuck for a long time, and I want to help, I want to help them, I want to help them through my stories know that.

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Mike Malatesta: everyone’s story is different, I get it, but most journeys are similar and if my story resonates with a story in your life, then you can picture it and you can see that.

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Mike Malatesta: You know it’s Okay, maybe, where you are, but you can also see that there is this bigger breakthrough opportunity and it’s there for you, you just have to one be aware that you know, be aware of why you are where you are and then be aware that you can create something different John so.

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Mike Malatesta: it’s been great to talk about these these two chapters to the getting selfish chapter there’s a pivotal one in the in the book for from for me my reversal.

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Mike Malatesta: And I think I think for everyone, you know Washington say everyone not everyone’s going to need that kind of Epiphany but.

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Mike Malatesta: At least in my experience, and I don’t know what your Eo experience is like John but i’d say that.

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Mike Malatesta: it’s something that that.

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Mike Malatesta: You know resonates with a lot of entrepreneurs.

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John Corcoran: Oh definitely yeah I see that a lot is all with other healers that you know either they need to get selfish or.

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John Corcoran: They are being selfish you know, in some ways, I mean you know this week I did a couple of activities, I was out all day Wednesday another activity yesterday half a day.

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John Corcoran: You know, and part of me felt guilty, but then the other part, was like you know it’s good for me, these things are really good they’re good for the company they’re good for overall and there’s going to be TEAM members.

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John Corcoran: You know who don’t understand they don’t know what I’m doing you know, and I guess the best we can do is just kind of you know, overall, is communicate that you know.

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John Corcoran: Even if we’re outside of the office, even for not you know, responding right away that it’s for the good of the company and actually you know, to speak dovetailing on that my business partner JEREMY.

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John Corcoran: is actually going on as long as vacation in 20 years since he’s worked at the end of this month for 16 days at my urging I was pushing him to do that.

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John Corcoran: One to just to demonstrate that we can survive without him he’s very integral to the company and to to give him a break, and I think the team really gets that they understand you know that it’s it’s an opportunity for everyone to shine while he’s away.

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John Corcoran: And, and that it’s going to make us better having that experience and yeah you could call it selfishness sure, but ultimately I think it’s going to lead to a better company overall.

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Mike Malatesta: I appreciate you sharing that because there’s one there’s a couple lessons there one you have to have time off right.

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Mike Malatesta: don’t have.

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Mike Malatesta: You know, every I know I was this way for years and years and years and it’s I still struggle with this, this is no easy thing, but if you’re not recharging yourself and being a little selfish that way, just think all the things that rely on you right.

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John Corcoran: If you’re not.

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Mike Malatesta: If you’re if you’re not putting yourself first.

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Mike Malatesta: How do you expect to be your best right.

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Mike Malatesta: yeah so that’s number one two best way for you to find out what’s broken in your company go away for a while.

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John Corcoran: exactly right.

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Mike Malatesta: Right and you’ll know a lot better what the problems are that you know are that need to be addressed, where now if you’re there all the time you’re there to fix the problems you don’t see them as problems you see them as just things that you know naturally occur so.

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Mike Malatesta: it’s been so much fun going going through these two chapters, I do appreciate you making time to do it and for all the guidance and advice you’ve given me and all the help you’ve provided over the last three years as well.

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John Corcoran: that’s absolutely great job so just the just going to mention it by name for those listening to this owner shift how getting selfish got me unstuck by Mike bell TESTA and they can get it where Mike.

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Mike Malatesta: It is a is already an Amazon bestseller in multiple categories, and I would really, really be grateful if you go to Amazon buy a copy check it out, and let me know what you think because I’m.

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Mike Malatesta: I’m open to conversation about my ideas versus yours, but really.

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Mike Malatesta: I want, I want to make make an impact on the on the success of the entrepreneurs out there in the world, and I think this book has a chance of doing that.

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John Corcoran: Great thanks so much bye thanks for involving me this is there’s a lot of fun.

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Mike Malatesta: All right, John and how about how do you want people to connect with you.

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John Corcoran: rise 25 they can go there check it out or connect with me on linkedin John corcoran on linkedin either way.

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Mike Malatesta: Okay cool thanks for joining me everyone thanks for listening and have a fantastic day.