Dorine Rivers – How to Cash In on Your Ideas (392)

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Episode transcript below:

SPEAKERS

Mike Malatesta, Dorine Rivers

Mike Malatesta  00:00

Hi everyone, Mike Malatesta here and welcome back to the how’d it happened podcast on this podcast, I dig in deep with every guest to explore the roots of their success to discover not just how it happened, but why it matters. My mission is to find and share stories that inspire, activate and maximize the greatness in you. On today’s episode, I’m talking with Dr. Doreen rivers, a mother of nine, the CEO of alpha 81, and an expert in maximizing ideas and human potential. We talked about what it’s like to be unemployable, what she learned growing up with a dad, who was a world adventurer, how grit comes from knowing your why and why it’s so important to just start, you can create your product or your service one or two ways you can go create something you just think is really cool. And then you can go out and try to find a market for it, which usually involves educating people as to why they need it. Or you can go out and find out what the market needs in the niche industries that you’re passionate about. And then you can create what they need. And then you just plug it into your markets already there. And they’re ready for it because they’ve been waiting for it because they need it. The lottery obviously, is the better way to do that. And you’re going to provide something people need and you don’t have to talk him into it because I’m waiting for durian is an amazing success story. And I think you’ll love this conversation. Hi, Dorine, welcome to the podcast.

Dorine Rivers  01:32

So great to be here with you. Mike, thank you so much for the invitation.

Mike Malatesta  01:35

Oh, my pleasure. I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time. Ever since I think it was Justin Breen that introduced the two of us are connected the two of us and had great things to say about your new book, brain to bank, how to get your idea out of your head and cash in and I’ve got a picture of that book up on the screen right now if you want to see it. Dr. Dorian Rivers has an undergraduate degree in creative writing, a PhD in business management, investment banking and general contractor licenses and a few other degrees and certifications in between. She is the CEO of alpha at one Inc, in Arizona based firms successfully supporting corporate innovations, expansions and exits in software, technology, medical life, health sciences, education and other industries. Her new book, her latest book, I guess I should say brain to bank, as I mentioned, how to get your ideas out of your head and cash in has a plethora of resources and tools that will help you get your idea from your brain to your bank. With these additional resources, you’ll be able to improve and accelerate getting your ideas out of your head and cash in even quicker. So I’m really excited to learn more about that you can learn more about Doreen at her website, which is alpha 80 one.com. LinkedIn, she’s Doreen rivers, D O R I N E, and of course the book brain to bank.com. So, river I start every podcast with the same simple question. And that is, how did it happen for you?

Dorine Rivers  03:12

It was very early in the game. I really think some people are literally born unemployable parents really become entrepreneurs. And I think I realized that at age eight, all the kids in the neighborhood had lemonade stands. And they’re selling lemonade for a penny apiece and they’re all in competition with each other at the same price. And I looked at that, I just thought there’s got to be better way to do that. So I took us ice cream, ice cube trays, and my brother and I fill them with Kool Aid different flavors, and then put them in the freezer and about halfway through, you got to remember to go in and stick the toothpicks in there. And then you end up with these little baby popsicles. And no one had popsicles just us and we are selling them for two cents. And within a week, we had everybody’s business and everybody just wanted to keep sickles. And from there we went on and created puppet shows and a bunch of other stuff. But you know, when you get an idea, you go, Oh, well, why? Why wouldn’t I do that, and you just try it. And I learned that very early in the game. I had parents that, you know, taught us that we could do anything we wanted. We just had to decide to go do it. And we learned to be independent and creative early on. And it just it just carried through right into the career that I’ve had for 30 years, which is helping startups get up and running. I have companies that call me and want me to come and start their company and I’ve come in as early as even naming the company. But after about a year and a half or two you know you have up and running systems and processes and and you hand it to him and you say here’s the baby you don’t You know what, and then you go to another company. And that’s been the path for me?

Mike Malatesta  05:04

And how, tell me about your parents turning up. So they encouraged this? Well, what were they up to what was their life,

Dorine Rivers  05:13

my father was a World adventurer. And he ended up starting one of the biggest whitewater rafting companies in the world at the time, and it’s been around 62 years now. He’s not here anymore. But he, other people were running the same company. And he would go to places and explore them. And I grew up whitewater rafting, and literally living in a sleeping bag and sleeping on the sand and running rivers all summer, and then going to Mexico in the wintertime, and hacking the jungles of Mexico with a machete trying to discover why in ruins. So it just seemed like the natural way and I didn’t I didn’t know how blessed I was at the time. And how unusual it was at the time. To be able to do those things. I just thought that’s how you did your life. And, and it stuck with me.

Mike Malatesta  06:13

Hi, um, was that a family affair? beyond you? And your your dad? I mean, you have siblings, or did your mom come along? Or was it?

Dorine Rivers  06:21

Oh my gosh, my mom was as involved as anybody. I had an older brother and then there’s six girls in a row. And you know, I’m because of the type of company that it is at the time. Women were not Boatman. And so I learned to cook and do a bunch of other stuff. But they are now. But at the time I said to my dad, I said don’t do you wish you would have had, you know more boys? He said, Heavens, no. He said, My girls can do anything that boys can do. And and we never thought there were limitations or boundaries.

Mike Malatesta  06:58

That’s a nice way to be raised.

Dorine Rivers  07:01

It was it was incredible.

Mike Malatesta  07:04

And I know you traveled around but were you born in in Arizona as well. That’s where

Dorine Rivers  07:10

I was born in California. I got transplanted early in the game when I was five years old, away from the ocean. And I’ve always been imprinted to the beaches of California and wanting to go back there. But I’ve lived in many of the different states, west of the Rockies and most of its been for business when I I’ve moved and gone there to start other businesses and I’ve been around but I’m I’m anchored here. At least I haven’t moved in the last eight years, which is sort of a miracle for me.

Mike Malatesta  07:44

What was your what was the longest stretch prior to that?

Dorine Rivers  07:48

Oh, well, you know, I was I was in Utah, probably almost 40 years. I’ve lived there three times. But I You know, I’ve been back to California several times. I’ve lived here in Arizona three times I’ve been in Idaho, I’ve been in Washington, I spent a great deal of time in Oregon. And and and so those have been the main places. And was

Mike Malatesta  08:11

it at least as far as you can remember was it really at eight years old that you realize that you were potentially unemployable outside of your family?

Dorine Rivers  08:20

I never I was the square peg trying to fit into the round hole my entire life. And it started with being eight and having all these great ideas. And my friends are you know, playing with dolls and playing jump rope and I’m over, you know, building a tree hut and then I’m creating a slide that goes down and I’m doing, you know, an amusement park ride through everybody and charging them for it.

Mike Malatesta  08:45

Gotcha. So, okay, so that was the next adventure your own amusement park. Tell me, take me from tickets for me too. You know, through high school. What was going on with you? I mean, I know you were working with your dad and the business. I guess while you were, I don’t know. Were you like a homeschooled person? Or were you just Oh, no,

Dorine Rivers  09:05

no, I was just mainstream public. We didn’t have any money growing up. I grew up to figure out how to get things and how to get places. My mom had six kids by time she was 28 or something. And if you wanted to get somewhere you walked and and, you know, it feels like the story of walking uphill both ways in the snow to go to school, but it literally was like that. And we just had to figure out how to get there. We didn’t go but I I work. As I was working with my dad in the summers, we would have a different place to live every summer where he was starting a new part of the river running. So we’d be in Utah, we’d be up in Idaho where he was running the shell way up, which runs through Idaho and Montana. So we’re living out that way, and then Arizona and for Donya, which was the base for the Grand Canyon, Cataract Canyon, I just moved around all summer long, it was never even home. And you learn to, to figure out these new environments, and how to how to adjust and you know, hopefully you make new friends, but it’s for three months, and you gotta go back and go to school. But, you know, that took me through high school. And then my parents were very, very young. They were in high school when they got married. And, and so I had really young parents, and they didn’t go to college. And so when I graduated from high school, they didn’t sit down and say, Do you want to go to university, you want to go to college? What do you love to do? What what are you really like? What are you good at, let us help you like, those discussions didn’t happen not even once. And just because they never happened for them. So it didn’t cross their mind to do that. And so I graduated from high school, and it’s rolling into July, and I’m thinking, maybe I’ll go to college. So I sold the racing bike I had just bought, I sold my guitar, I sold my flu, and I got enough money to pay the first quarter tuition. And that’s all I had. And I bummed a ride because I didn’t have a car and a bummed ride to university with my neighbor. And then I took a sleeping bag with me. And I stuffed it into the closet of the Alpha Chi house because I had joined the Alpha guys. And, and then I go to bed after everybody else and roll that sleeping bag out and sleep on the couch. And then I’d roll it back up and stuff in the closet before anybody got up. And I’d go to class. And the first weekend, just a few days in one of the Sigma Chi is next door said, you know, we we just lost our cook, do you know how to cook, you know, like, like for large groups. And I said, I learned how to cook for 50 to 100 people on the river. I said, it’s nothing. He said, great. You’re the new cook. So so now I have free lodging. With my sleeping bag next door. Now I have food because I’m cooking and I can eat there. And I have money that I can save and I finally got a car. And then I got an apartment and then you know things progressed from there. But you know, I went to school not knowing how I was going to pay for it. I just got enough for the first quarter. And I said to myself, I’ll just figure it out. And it all came together.

Mike Malatesta  12:43

And that’s an amazing story. So you’re the cook for the for the fraternity that the next the fraternity house next year sorority house is what I’m

Dorine Rivers  12:51

exactly correct. That’s That’s right. And so now I get to eat lunch and dinner there because I’m there. So now I’ve got food and I’ve got a place to live and I’m going to school and and within a week i i figured out how I’m going to keep going and I figured out my major which I changed seven times. But I graduated in eight quarters. Because I just thought spending four years was way too long. So I just pumped up the process and hurried it

Mike Malatesta  13:25

and wear it. So seven months change your major seven times you still graduate in a quarter. So tell me where you started and where you ended up.

Dorine Rivers  13:32

I ended up in English because it was easy for me and I loved it. But then I took some courses in anatomy things and I love medicine. So then I was in pre med. And then I went into pre law and then I went back to pre med. And then I went into education. And then back to English because it was easy. And then back to education and back to English. I ended up in English, graduating and creative writing because it was minus it was easy for me. And I just was looking to graduate at that point. And I thought I’ll just do English and it has been one of the best decisions I’ve ever made. Later on, I did get accepted to law school, but I ended up not going because I ended up getting married, then that takes you on another path, right?

Mike Malatesta  14:30

And let’s go down that path. But in a minute and sorry, I cut you off there. I also have an English degree. And I also took creative writing in college. So You’ve piqued my interest there on a couple of things. And I’ll start with the with the first as far as creative writing goes. Can you tell us some of the stories that you remember writing about when you’re in school?

Dorine Rivers  14:52

Oh, gosh. I remember writing one about an avalanche and what happened was there was were two guys that were in a cabin in the snow. This was this was the first short story ever wrote, I still have it. And what happens is, one guy wanted wanted to lead and the other guy didn’t want to leave. And so the guy who didn’t want to leave, tried to stop the one who did. And it goes on and on, and it involves a boat, and the guy coming after him with a shotgun, and so forth. And then when the shotgun goes off, it starts an avalanche. And again, it kills him both and nobody leaves. And I remember the teacher saying, to me, that’s not a resolution, this has to have a resolution someone has to win. And I kept the comments and you know, and of course, you now you see movies that, that the avalanche one, so somebody did win. All right, but she didn’t see it that way. But it was the first story I ever wrote. But it got my my teeth sunk into a creative writing and, and, and expressing myself and thinking about things people aren’t thinking about. And, and then then I got into training where I made a whole series of training programs for a company. And that one was more about education. But then I use metaphors to illustrate what I was doing. So you’re telling stories to illustrate your your point, which is the most poignant way to actually teach somebody is to tell them a story that illustrates the point. This book, brain bank does that in every single chapter, there are stories to illustrate, if not more than one story per chapter, to say, this is what happened. And when you’re reading it, you know, a long time, you can see, oh, gosh, I did that. Or gosh, I might have done that. Or why did they do that or but you’re having a reaction to it makes you think about what’s being taught there. Because you’re interacting emotionally with what is being told

Mike Malatesta  16:58

how much in the story, the shock goes off, and the avalanche starts how much time? Like how sorry to sort of go deep on this. But do you remember how much sort of character exploration you did with the two of them from the time that, you know, the shotgun went off, and they could see that the avalanche was coming until it won? You know,

Dorine Rivers  17:21

I? It’s funny, you say that. So I went back and read it about a month ago. And you know, I was 16 when I wrote that 15 Maybe? And, and I was I was surprised at how well they were characterized by their actions. And I don’t know where I learned that so early in the game, they always say don’t, don’t tell. So. And it took me forever to understand what that meant is that, you know, basically, you’re not, you’re not saying, Oh, he was a mean person, you’re showing him kicking the dog, or you know, and then you you make that assumption yourself as the reader. And I knew how to do it, I just didn’t know that was the name of it. But I took a screenwriting and I wrote movies for about 10 years. And that’s where you really hone in your craft. Because every every page that you write in a specific software, it’s called Final Draft, every page is one minute of a movie. And you cannot spend a lot of time with this big flowery explanation of what’s going on. You have to get right into it. And every word matters. And what matters even most is what’s called subtext. And that’s what you didn’t say, but it’s inferred. So once you learn how to do that, all your other writing your biographies or fiction or business books, you you learn to infer things and to truncate what you’re saying, so that it’s quicker and actually more more intense and more. You’re conveying more information with less words.

Mike Malatesta  19:08

I got it. Yeah, that’s, that’s, that’s a skill that I very much want to not just have but can work on and continue to get better at because it’s just so well, and as you’ve written novels and stuff, too, it’s just so difficult to be able to do that. It’s very difficult to let the story tell the story as opposed to thinking you need to tell the whole story in words. It’s dialogue.

Dorine Rivers  19:34

You have to trust your the smarts of your of your readers, right. You know, they say the most intimidating thing for writers is the blank sheet and I don’t think that’s the most intimidating thing. The hardest thing for writers is just starting and that’s every day and and some some writers will write and they will leave the sentence half done. So when they start the next day, they have the place to Pick up and then they can keep going. It’s a brilliant technique.

Mike Malatesta  20:05

So second question, that’s English related, you mentioned pre med a couple of times. So you, you ended up on the on the English with English, but you were also into science. And you said that English was, you know, that was the best, I think you said something I was the best choice that you could have possibly made. I like to think the same way. But it’s probably more because I made that choice, then it is maybe objectively the best choice, but I want to get your opinion between, there’s a lot of focus now on, on, you know, stem and on, you know, really concentrating on a specific discipline, as opposed to people say, Well, an English degree is maybe worthless, because you’re not actually learning, you know, some some something specific. And I, I’d love to hear your how you how you think about that.

Dorine Rivers  20:56

There’s a couple thoughts on that. The first one is if you were able to write, and then of course, speak correctly and succinctly and get your point across and people understand it, your heads above anybody who knows what they’re doing, but can’t actually tell people about it. And they can’t explain it and they can’t teach it. Write writing, and be able to express yourself is a valuable tool, it doesn’t matter what other avenues you decide to add to that it starts there. If you don’t do that, well, and you can’t do that, well, you’re you’re at a distinct disadvantage. The other thing I found this time went on was all my other loves of science and medicine and law and construction, and whatever else I ended up doing anyway, I went and started companies that do those things. And so I got to play in that arena, and I got to do it anyway.

Mike Malatesta  21:58

Well, I like the way you, you square that up, because I do agree with you, if you are a great communicator, writer, speaker, presenter, anything else that you have any other knowledge that you have, just to me, is exponentially juiced up, as opposed to someone who has great knowledge about something but as a really difficult time explaining it to someone in a way that makes them want to stay interested or stay away.

Dorine Rivers  22:25

I have people I’ve worked with who who can’t spell at all. And if they end up sending that out and someone hasn’t looked at it, what is the first impression of that business, it gets out letter, it doesn’t matter if the guy knows what he’s doing, he can stay when he knows what’s true, because all the guy can see is that you said you’re a fool. Why Oh, you are instead of why oh, you apostrophe Ara. And that and that’s all they can see is that, Oh, this guy can’t spell and then they don’t listen to anything else. You have to say it. It sounds Elementary, but it’s a real thing. So first impressions matter. And usually that’s email and or now a text. And so the written word is going to be the first thing you see.

Mike Malatesta  23:09

So it’s so true. And, you know, in a world where we It seems like everyone is telling everyone not to judge, you just can’t help judging, you know, you get something that’s not written correctly, or something that’s not professional, whatever, you’re going to judge that person, whether that’s fair or not, that’s what you’re going to do, right? And you’re gonna make a determination or decision based on what you see. And you’re gonna make it very quickly, just like that without even thinking about it. Exactly. So law school, you said you were gonna go to law school, and instead you ended up getting married. And I, as I reflected on some of the information that I have about you, you went on to have five children, all of them. The oldest was five when you had all five, is that correct? So take us down that path

Dorine Rivers  23:54

is painful. I, I had my first baby at 21. And when I got that English degree, I was six months, six, six weeks away from giving birth to my first child, and I’ll never forget the provost was sitting there and he hand me my diploma and he’s shaking my hand and he’s looking at me in the eye and he says congratulations. And then he looks at my ready, ready to burst belly and he goes, congratulations. And it was funny. Five years later, I had my fifth baby in the car at midnight in the rain. And I decided there was a better way to make a living

Mike Malatesta  24:33

as someone who coaches people and helps entrepreneurs and startups and like how do you how do you explain it to people in a way that makes them think that they’re capable of it? As well, when I think they’d be talking themselves out of that?

Dorine Rivers  24:47

Well, it comes it comes down to number one, what do you want? And number two, how bad do you want it? And three, why do you want it? And if you have clarity on those things, You’re nothing’s impossible, you just go back to the reason why you want so badly. And you know, for me, it was down to, I really believed in education, I still believe in education, I listened to a book every week, I take classes all the time. And I am forever trying to learn new things faster so that I can use it to build more things, make myself better help more people. And it all it all goes down to what do you want for yourself. And if you’re listening to the what Wayne Dyer likes to call the good intentions of others, people always have great ideas about how you should live your life. And if you’re buying into that, then you’re not really living your life, you’re living their life. And so you got to sit down and you got to look in the mirror and you got to spend some contemplative time deciding what you really want. And and then, how bad do you want it. And if you really want it, then you put some action in buying that you decide how you’re going to go about doing it. You put a time stamp on it, it shows up on your calendar. And when it shows up, you do it? If you can do that. Really, nothing’s impossible.

Mike Malatesta  26:20

So thank you for that. Yeah, we were talking before we hit record on this brain to bank is, I think, your ninth book, and you’re working on your 10th book. Now do I think I have that right? It made me think why was right now the right time for you to write brain to bank,

Dorine Rivers  26:36

it was a it was time because I was spending a lot of time helping others to start their companies. And did this bank is the comb this book is the culmination of the last 30 years of helping companies. Well, what’s the West best way to help them it’s, it’s to start at the entrepreneur level, and to provide them with a roadmap that shows them how to do it. And more specifically, even how not to do it. There’s a section in the book called another series. Another episode in this in the drama series of I didn’t see it coming. And it’s all the mistakes that people have made, while they were running their companies or starting their companies or trying to sell their companies. And I talk about what they did that didn’t work for them. And then I say, do it this way, you just learned your lesson from these guys. So you don’t have to make that mistake yourself. Now, this is how you do it. And at the end of every chapter are action accelerators, which are the action pages for you to write down? How are you going to do what you just learned? And then then you’re going to go do that. And then when you move on you you’re building your base all the way along of all the things that you need. And, you know, the first thing is, why are you doing this? And if you’re not clear on that, then you don’t have anything to fall back on when things get really tough. And then that that’s where your grit comes from, and you grab a hold of that, why are you doing this? And that propels you forward. But you know, it’s things like what business entity should you choose? And and this is how you write a business plan. And this is why you, you know, you have your roadmap written down. And as things go along, sometimes that changes, and you go back and you make those changes. So when you get there, you see where you are still going, you always know where you’re going. It talks about, you know, if you’re manufacturing your product, how do you do that and not end up with something that doesn’t work and just wasted your money. Now you got 15,000 boat anchors, instead of you know, something that was molded to be more useful. And then exit strategies. No one runs a company forever, at some point, you’re not going to be here anymore. So what’s gonna happen, you’re gonna leave it to your kids, you’re gonna, you’re gonna sell it for a million dollars to public company in m&a and go live on the beaches of Costa Rica. You’re going to liquidate it, what will you know, what are you going to do, but that is to build the building in the very beginning. Because a lot of times that helps you decide what entity you’re going to start with, and how you’re going to build your business plan. And it all goes in there. But it’s all in there. There are stories that that show you what happened. There are explicit instructions on what to do next. And if you just go from one to 17 on those chapters, you’ve got your business bill, you’ve got your idea, your head, you’re in the marketplace, you’re going to start making money.

Mike Malatesta  29:49

So I want to get back to the idea thing, you know, get you out, get your idea out of your head and into your, you know, cash in or into your bank, right. So and you mentioned Why’d you have to have why? So how do you help people take an idea that they may not have a why for it’s just an idea that they want to run with? Or they think is the greatest thing, whatever? How do you help people construct a why around their idea so that they can get started with it and have the grit as you said, you know, that they’re going to need to get through it,

Dorine Rivers  30:21

you know, I think goes, you have to, you have to say, Well, why do you want to do it? And someone will say, Well, I want to do it because I need money. And you say, Why do you need money? Well, I need money because my husband was injured in a construction accident, and he’s not working and working workman’s comp quit paying us. Well, so if he’s not working, you need money. What do you need the money for? Well, I need it for my kids and and and to pay the rent. Well, why do you need that? Because I’m the only one left standing here that can actually work and do it. And there’s your answers, because it falls on me. And I’m the only one that can do it. So I’m going to do it. And so you see, you have to dig down the layers and figure out what’s going on.

Mike Malatesta  31:12

Yeah, okay, peel the onion or whatever they will write whatever they say. And this. And I think that’s it. So it’s really interesting that you go all the way from, you know, the start or the idea in your head all the way to the exit, because there’s not, I haven’t seen too many roadmaps that take us sort of that whole way. And it’s for that reason, the book probably appeals to, you know, a really wide range of people, because you’ve got people with just an idea. So there’s, you know, startup or pre startup even and then you have people thinking about exit so they have a mature business, or else they’re completely burned out when you know what, but you know, it’s stage it’s in a, it’s a totally different state. So you take the roadmap takes people through all the stages, so they know what to how to do it, what to expect, how to reflect how to prepare, do I have that, right? That’s exactly

Dorine Rivers  32:05

right. It covers service products that covers actual products. What happens with actual products, and especially if they’re created by engineers, is that they can’t wait to produce this product. And maybe they’re going to produce this little robot that is going to crawl across their desk and get them a new pencil. And they just can’t wait to develop this because it’s so fun to play with a toy. But what at the end of the day, what they have is a fun toy, they don’t have a business. So there’s nowhere to sell it. There’s no infrastructure for for distribution and pricing and letting people know about it. And marketing. There’s none of that there’s just this little robot toy. So So you have to teach them at the beginning that that’s really the fun part. But it’s not a business. So if you want to build a toy for fun, then then go do that. But if you’re going to make money and share your idea with others, and a lot of times your idea helps other people, if you want to help those other people get to create the business infrastructure that allow you to sell it and offer it to others.

Mike Malatesta  33:14

Yeah, I often hear that referred to as what problem? are you solving it? Okay, so you got this cool robot, for example, but And man, it’s cool. People look at it and be like, That’s cool. But what problem is it really solving because you have to have a saw, you have to be solving a problem to have a business.

Dorine Rivers  33:34

Why and you’re and you’re right about that. So that you know, when I talk about the marketing, you can do your your product, create your product, or your service to one or two ways, you can go create something you just think is really cool. And then you can go out and try to find a market for it, which usually involves educating people as to why they need it, and then tucking them into whoever they are, wherever they may be. Or you can go out and find out what the market needs in a niche industry that you’re passionate about. And then you can create what they need. And then you just plug it in and your markets already there. And they’re ready for it because they’ve been waiting for it because they need it. And the ladder obviously is the better way to do that. And you’re going to provide something people need and you don’t have to talk him into it because then waiting for it

Mike Malatesta  34:30

right when you say grid grid comes from the why I thought that was that was really prophetic. And I was thinking about the story that I saw in the book about the place you were where you the group was climbing a pole and then you get to the top of the pole and then you have to jump in grab a trapeze bar. And you took you took the reader through your how you were feeling about it, but also what you were observing and I thought it was just a real instance. Active story of having the grit that comes from having a y that encouraged you, I guess or fueled you to do something that was very, very challenging.

Dorine Rivers  35:10

Yeah, that that story well, I went to a personal retreat where it was a personal in reflective, try to try be better person kind of a thing. And that that 50 foot pole was, I thought it just looks like some of the trees I had climbed as a kid, and it was no big deal. But as I watched the people ahead of me, there was a woman ahead of me and she, when you climb up the pole, there’s huge rungs. And then when you get up to the top of it, there’s there’s nothing stabilizing that pole. So the higher you get, the more it sways, because your way and the wind is pushing it. And by the time you’re up to almost that 50 feet, you’re you’re swaying pretty good. And then you have to take one foot and put her on top of a pole that’s maybe 14 inches wide. And then the next step, there’s nothing to hold on to, you’re not grabbing something and pulling yourself up your wife yourself up with your own strength, and putting your other foot up there. And you’re wearing a helmet and a harness. So that most likely when you fall, something catches you because people freak out because there’s nothing to hold on to. And it is just you making that last step by yourself with no hand helping you, it’s on you. And so I watched a woman get to that one point, she sat there for an hour, and she couldn’t make herself put her other foot up there. And she eventually called back down. And I saw that happen a number of times. And I vowed to myself, number one, it looked harder than it was. And but number two, I wasn’t gonna call that down, I was going to do whatever it took to stick my foot up there. And you have to tell yourself this, the worst thing that can happen is you try to get your foot up there and you fall and your harness catches you. And guess what you get back in line and you try it again, we call that learning from failure. And I figured if the worst worst comes to worst, and I fall, I’m just going to try it again. And I allowed myself the opportunity to say just go for it. And I said when I get up there, I’m counting to three and I’m making myself stick my foot up there. And that’s exactly what I did. And I stood right up. And I have yet to stand there for one minute. And then you leave for the crap he’s pull 10 feet out and you grab it. And then you let go on in, you’re swaying and your hardest may bring you down. And relatively few people completed that whole thing. But for me, it came down to that down to that last step. And are you going to go for it or not? And you decide that before you ever get there, you don’t decide or when you’re standing there you started at the bottom before you start climbing?

Mike Malatesta  38:04

Yeah, because if you try to decide it in the moment, you probably aren’t going to

Dorine Rivers  38:07

know make your mind begin that you’re gonna make it. And that you know, I mean, that’s a life lesson, right? You decide that accompany you’re starting to decide that about a marriage, you’re starting, you decide that about a marathon that you started running, whatever it is, you say I’m gonna finish this, I’m leaving in two weeks to hike Mount Kilimanjaro. And if I have to crawl on my hands and knees, I’m gonna reach that summit. Because at the bottom, I already decided that

Mike Malatesta  38:34

nice. And I think the polls that what you just described is also a good example of like how easy it is to talk us ourselves how easy it can be to talk ourselves out of something that we can do, because we get hung up on whether on what it will look like if we don’t do it. As opposed to get hung up on what we will look like when we do do it. Does that resonate with you? Do you feel like you see that with people?

Dorine Rivers  39:01

Oh, for sure. You would think that maybe the the public shame of not being able to do it would would make you do it but that’s not necessarily what’s behind it all. It is how you’re going to feel about yourself and how is this going to reflect how you are as a person right? I mean other people’s opinions matter to some people but at some point you go you know, how am I going to feel about that you know, and then it sets a pattern that you allow yourself to quit and that that’s a tough pattern and it can be broken but why started in the first place?

Mike Malatesta  39:38

Yeah, right good point why started in the first place you don’t have to break something that you haven’t started so I think I skipped over a little bit we talked about you know the different degrees you got and some of your your relationships and such but I don’t know that I that I that we had a chance to talk about how you first got started helping entrepreneurs start their businesses and take them through In the process that has become brain to bank,

Dorine Rivers  40:03

I had someone come to me and wanted me to help him start and build a a timeshare resort and it started there. And then it just, I don’t know, if people just came to me after that. And it just progressed after that. It really came with some annoying, I had, you know, had some building experience and some project management experience. And I don’t know, I never I, it snowballed from there.

Mike Malatesta  40:32

And the book itself, who is when I wrote my book, you know, I was taught to have like an avatar, who’s the who is the book for who is the ideal reader for this book? Who is your ideal reader for the book?

Dorine Rivers  40:46

I think it’s for entrepreneurs, I think it’s for business owners, even if they want to just add a new vertical to the existing business. I think it’s for universities and colleges, especially for their business and entrepreneur programs. I can’t tell you how many people in business that have read this and said to me, I wish I’d had this when I was getting my degree in business, because they don’t teach it to them teach you this. They teach you theories, but they don’t teach you real life applications. And I think that that’s a great conduit for the book. Any anybody who has an idea for a product or service or wants to, you know, create a business to help other people? Even nonprofits, Israel, them,

Mike Malatesta  41:33

okay, and the books available now on Amazon course, brain to bank.com, can they get the book there as well, wherever,

Dorine Rivers  41:42

it will give you a link over to Amazon. The audio book will be out in about a week. And so you can you can get an ebook, you can get a hardback or soft back, the audio comes out in a week. And then the online course that you can take will be ready in about 90 days.

Mike Malatesta  42:00

Okay, and how did you read the the audio? You know,

Dorine Rivers  42:04

I didn’t I hired it out. Which is why I’m not going to listen to our podcast, I can’t stand listen to my own voice.

Mike Malatesta  42:13

Okay, well, there’s not gonna recruit. Okay, and the course what is that’s going to be available in 90 days. We’re recording this in May of 2023. What’s the course about?

Dorine Rivers  42:29

It’ll be brain to bank and it’ll, it’ll take you to the book. And but it’ll be a visual representation of what the story is, I’m telling what’s happening. Obviously, the workbook stuff is still there. It’s just a more entertaining way to learn the material, especially if you’re a visual learner, it will solidify the ideas better that way for you. Okay.

Mike Malatesta  42:52

Remember, before we leave, is there anything that you wished or I should have asked you that I that I didn’t that you want to leave with? Me and with the audience before we go?

Dorine Rivers  43:02

I don’t think so. I think that the summation of it. Obviously, you can see how I feel about all this. And that’s, if you want to do it, go do it. nothing stopping you. But you so just start.

Mike Malatesta  43:19

Just start so simple, right? So simple. Just start well, I’m very happy to have had this conversation with you to have looked at the flipbook look forward to reading the book and completing the things at the end of the chapters to help me with my thinking and my activation. Thank you so much for writing this book River and for coming on the podcast and for leading what I what sounds to me to be an amazing life. Like an amazing, impactful life to so many people and cannot done you got a long way to go. We gotta get that law degree and climb Mount Kilimanjaro.

Dorine Rivers  43:57

That’s right, I gotta climb. Kili proof. Now think about a lot of Greek.

Mike Malatesta  44:01

There you go. Okay, that sounds fine to me, so you’re no longer an underachiever. That sounds fine.

Dorine Rivers  44:06

My thanks so much for having me. This has been really fun.

Mike Malatesta  44:09

My pleasure, everybody that’s listening, please until the next episode. I would like you to maximize your greatness and make your future your property something that you are very, very proud to owe everybody. Thanks for listening to the show. And before you go, I just have three requests for you one if you like what I’m doing please consider subscribing or following the podcast on whatever podcast platform you prefer. If you’re really into it, leave me a review write something nice about me Give me five stars or whatever you feel is most appropriate. Number two, I’ve got a book it’s called the owner shift. How getting selfish got me unstuck. It’s an Amazon bestseller and I’d love for you to read it or listen to it on Audible or wherever else Barnes and Noble Amazon you can get it everywhere. If you’re looking for inspiration that will help you unlock your greatness and put Henshall order or download it today so that you can have your very own copy. And if you get it please let me know what you think. Number three, my newsletter I do a newsletter every Thursday and I talk about things that are interesting to me and or I give more information about the podcast and the podcast guests that I’ve had and the experiences that I’ve had with them. You could sign up for the podcast today at my website, which is my name Mike malatesta.com. You do that right now put in your email address and you’ll get the very next issue. The newsletter is short, thoughtful and designed to inspire, activate and maximize the greatness in you