Meg Nocero, Esq. is the founder of Butterflies & Bliss, LLC, where she helps people transform into bliss. She’s also an attorney, a TEDx speaker, a Certified Happiness Trainer, and the host of the “Manifesting with Meg: Conversations with Extraordinary People” podcast. Meg Nocero is also a prolific writer, with three published books, “The Magical Guide to Bliss: Daily Keys to Unlock your Dreams, Spirit & Inner Bliss”, “Sparkle & Shine: 108 M.A.N.T.R.A.s to Brighten Your Day and Lighten your Way”, and her newest one, “Butterfly Awakens: A Memoir of Transformation Through Grief”.
Meg is a proud Italian American, and her family has always instilled in her a yearning for curiosity and education with the goal of having choices in the future. Meg believes the immigrant mindset has helped her be consistent with her education, even though she was more naturally pulled towards more creative endeavors, and that helped her become a lawyer.
From Attorney to Book Author
Meg Nocero worked for almost 20 years as an Assistant District Counsel for the U.S. Immigration & Naturalization Service, and then as an Assistant Chief Counsel for the Federal Government involving immigration law, where she hired and mentored over 300 undergraduate and law students.
Things started to change in Meg Nocero’s life when her mother was diagnosed with cancer. That was a very challenging period for Meg, and she found comfort in writing her thoughts in a journal to not get lost in the anxiety of what was happening to her mother, who sadly passed away in 2011. Her mother’s last message to her was “Stress will kill you and have no regrets in life”, and Meg decided to follow it fully by going all-in on her dreams. That’s what put her on the journey to bliss, which led her to create Butterflies & Bliss, LLC and become an author, speaker, and coach, while also funding the non-profit SHINE Networking Inc. that raises funds to provide educational scholarships to young innovative leaders whose are making a difference in their community.
And now here’s Meg Nocero, Esq.
Show Notes
[2:51] How’d it happen for Meg Nocero?
[11:15] Was being a lawyer something that was on Meg’s mind?
[22:10] Feeling worn out litigating cases
[32:40] On paying to signs and intuition
[39:20] Meg’s writing journey, process, and experience
[48:08] Exploring “Bliss” and Meg’s second book
[58:18] Outro
Full transcript below
Video on Creating Your Hero’s Journey With Bliss
Watch Meg Nocero’s TEDx Talk
Visit MegNocero.com to Learn More About Meg
Discover Meg’s Coaching Services
Get Meg Nocero’s Books
Connect with Meg Nocero on LinkedIn
Follow Meg Nocero on Instagram
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Podcast with Meg Nocero, Esq. Creating Your Hero’s Journey With Bliss.
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Mike Malatesta: Hey everybody ,welcome back to the show. Today I am fulfilling my promise to you with another amazing success story; i’ve got Meg Nocero on the podcast today Meg, thank you for joining me.
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Meg Nocero: it’s an honor, thank you for having me Mike.
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Mike Malatesta: So let me tell you a little bit about Meg; Meg is the founder of Butterflies and Bliss LLC where she helps people transform to bliss.
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Mike Malatesta: I shortened it to that; I hope that’s okay. We’re gonna talk more about that. She is also an attorney, a TED-X speaker and a certified happiness trainer; she hosts the Manifesting with Meg-Conversations with Extraordinary People Podcast that I hope to be on soon.
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Mike Malatesta: And is an award winning author of three books.
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Mike Malatesta: The magical guide to bliss sparkle and shine and her latest that just came out in September, you can get it now wherever you get books butterfly awakens a memoir of transformation through grief.
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Mike Malatesta: Make transformed herself after her beloved mother died from breast cancer, she left her career as a prosecutor for the immigration and naturalization service is it still called that back.
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Meg Nocero: Or did they change is is this immigration yeah okay.
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Mike Malatesta: All right, sorry I was using the old.
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Mike Malatesta: Anyway, she she left that career to search for the light she saw in a vision before her mom passed away we’ll learn more about that later.
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Mike Malatesta: mike’s been featured on msnbc CBS ABC news the Boston herald the Chicago tribune oprah and and in hundreds more places, you can learn more about Meg at our website bag necessarily.com Nasir oh see I did it wrong or.
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Mike Malatesta: me G and oC er COM.
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Mike Malatesta: You can also email her at mag Nasir oh at ma si.com instagram Meg Nasir oh.
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Mike Malatesta: yeah you’re on Twitter too.
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Meg Nocero: I am, yes, I am are you there.
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Mike Malatesta: Is that your handle there as well.
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Meg Nocero: it’s just mag Nasir oh that’s right.
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Meg Nocero: got it.
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Mike Malatesta: Her books are available on her website and Amazon Barnes and noble and wherever books are sold Meg I started every podcast with the same simple question, and that is how it happened for you.
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Meg Nocero: how’s it happened for me right now with my book out and two weeks ago it’s a work in progress, I love, how you know.
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Meg Nocero: I embrace the progress progress not perfection mantra so yeah I think that that is actually how it’s happening for me is that I do look for progress not perfection.
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Meg Nocero: So, following that term i’m not holding myself to any standards that i’m not ready to embrace so it’s.
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Meg Nocero: I heard the other day I love it it’s like one of the kindergarten rhymes comes true to life inch by inch it’s a cinch yard by yard very hard so i’m going into my end.
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Meg Nocero: And walking the journey one step at a time and getting to talk to amazing people like you and you know really kind of enjoying all of the work that I put in the actual you know payoff is to have amazing conversations with your audience, as well as you.
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Mike Malatesta: And let’s uh so that’s like very reason, and I thank you for that let’s let’s go back a little bit because, like I.
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Mike Malatesta: Like I said in the introduction you sort of had transformation in your life like we all do, and those have led to where you are today but i’m curious about you know what was well let’s let’s go back to what Meg was like as a kid I mean Meg where’d you grow up, would you do.
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Mike Malatesta: how’d you become Meg.
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Meg Nocero: So.
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Meg Nocero: yeah I like to think that you know the roots of Meg are certainly in my Italian roots, I come from a very.
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Meg Nocero: Wonderful Italian American family I i’m very proud of that, for sure my family always instilled in us a yearning for curiosity.
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Meg Nocero: As well as you know, getting an education was really important it opens up doors for us, you know we come from that.
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Meg Nocero: Immigrant mentality, where you know educate yourself and it’ll get you to a place where you get to actually make choices in your life.
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Meg Nocero: And certainly I was very blessed with two parents who really made the choice to educate us well and.
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Meg Nocero: It opened up so many doors and i’ll have to say, even as a child, you know I I kind of fought them tooth and nail, because I was more creative than wanted to sit down and study all the time that wasn’t really my jam i’ll say that, as my daughter would say me tell me now.
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Meg Nocero: But you know the funny thing is, is that.
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Meg Nocero: You can embrace both sides of the brain left and right the logical, as well as the creative, unfortunately, when you have a certain goals in mind, sometimes the creative is you know squashed or sometimes the other side, the logic is clogged but.
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Meg Nocero: You know, as i’ve come into myself the mag I am now i’m so grateful for that real engagement as a kid into the world of imagination it, you know, and I will have to give credit to my dad as well as my grandmother.
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Meg Nocero: Helen Ostrow for that they loved the movies, and any kid growing up, who got to see a world outside their door through one of those wonderful you know movies, I mean I remember one of the first that I ever saw was.
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Meg Nocero: You know, gone with the wind, although it was torture us to sit there for how many hours that we had to.
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say.
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Meg Nocero: It was still like oh my God i’ll never forget scarlett o’hara sitting, you know standing on the hill at the end you know saying tomorrow is another day all these.
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Meg Nocero: quotes still come at me so you know, I was able to embrace my imagination, through the lens.
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Meg Nocero: Of a movie camera because I went to the movies, all the time that was one of our favorite places that in theater it was great so how did happen certainly started off by being introduced to a world of creativity.
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Mike Malatesta: And were you did you take it further, did you have notebooks where you create scripts or did you act out please have your own or that kind of thing or were you just sort.
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Mike Malatesta: of just high.
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Meg Nocero: yeah all the time, I have two sisters, so I had cohorts I had you know, are you know partners in crime, so to speak, my sisters were only a year and a half older and younger, so we were very.
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Meg Nocero: Very close you know, we had each other, we had other kids obviously that we’re friends with but we’re a little tight as far as the three some in fact my my mom named does ultimately what turned out to be.
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Meg Nocero: The little women my mother was Mary Jo my oldest sister’s Mary beth.
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Meg Nocero: i’m Meg and my under sisters amy so you know, obviously the literary world came peeking into ours and we used to grow up.
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Meg Nocero: You know, thinking that we were all the little women, although I wouldn’t say my personality is much like megs it’s more like Joe you know the rebellious one but.
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Meg Nocero: Anyway, that being said, ya know, I had the opportunity to have a world of imagination comes alive, because we used to put plays on all the time we used to put it in a present them to my parents, they would engage that you know.
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Meg Nocero: I used to write all the time, I used to write stories about you know you know very successful young women, I would you know back in the day.
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Meg Nocero: It was still under the auspices of you know, women were more limited than men, but my mother was like never let that ever peek into your.
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Meg Nocero: vocabulary of our vernacular whatever you want to call it, because.
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Meg Nocero: Women have just as much opportunity as men you’re just going to have to make a different path for yourself, so you know, I was and, by the way, my father was outbid by four women in the House, so the only dogs that we had were always mail, so he made sure that the representative.
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Meg Nocero: But you know that’s one of those wonderful things to go back and remember those wonderful times, where you had you know those creative moments, and we laugh because.
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Meg Nocero: that’s what builds a life is the foundational on your memories and certainly makes you who you are today and and I love that you asked that question, thank you.
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Mike Malatesta: And was that were you growing up in Miami or did you grow up somewhere else.
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Meg Nocero: No i’m not from Miami my.
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Meg Nocero: family’s actually from New York and they moved down to Orlando my father was stationed in Orlando naval naval hospital during the Vietnam war he that was such a strange.
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Meg Nocero: place we got lucky for that, because I might not be here if he had what he was you know in actually Vietnam, but he was.
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Meg Nocero: He was transferred down to Orlando loved Orlando love the weather down there met another doctor and while he was in the navy medical.
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Meg Nocero: hospital and invited him to work as a cardiologist and practice in Orlando so, which is very, very.
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Meg Nocero: Not traditional for the family, to leave, especially Italian families they’re really tighten it and they don’t like where you going don’t leave the nest but my parents did take that leap of faith so clearly courage was something that.
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Meg Nocero: was something that they embrace so I to jump and take a leap of faith out of one career to another, for me, you know I had great great examples.
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Meg Nocero: At my side, so they started a whole life in Orlando my father’s still very renowned cardiologist there my mother was.
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Meg Nocero: A very huge powerhouse in the Community, so you know my parents, made a life for themselves there and then, when I decided, you know to venture out to Miami because by myself it wasn’t necessarily.
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Meg Nocero: A fearful thing it was more of an exciting thing of like let me see if I can make my way, especially.
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Meg Nocero: When I was in high school, I went exchange to Colombia, South America, I lived in Colombia, South America for.
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Meg Nocero: A time with exchange family there, so I learned, Spanish and I, you know Miami is obviously a great place to practice your Spanish in fact my.
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Meg Nocero: My husband, used to say to me when you first met me, you know who is going to have a major in romance languages or Spanish, which was my my major was romance languages, I speak four languages.
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Meg Nocero: And you know living in Miami i’m like do you want to re evaluate what you just said to me, because I can talk to people in business, I don’t know about you, you need a translator so you know it definitely served me well, to make the leap to Miami after that, after college.
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Mike Malatesta: Okay yeah I was gonna ask about that, because the think you studied Italian and Spanish at Boston college and I.
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Mike Malatesta: My limited knowledge of what the you know track to law school is typically doesn’t go down the just the you know just the language, maybe you have a minor in a language and.
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Mike Malatesta: You know, history is your way but but But was it was being a lawyer, on your mind when you were in college or was it were you looking at something else and.
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Meg Nocero: I you know my whole point about learning languages, first of all, is, I mean it really hard, I would have probably been better off I would have like you know but easier if I just English major.
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Meg Nocero: But.
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Mike Malatesta: that’s what I did.
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Meg Nocero: yeah I mean a fantastic though right you get to.
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Meg Nocero: meet all the great literature, the great work solution, I was doing that in Spanish, I was reading llc.
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Meg Nocero: And I was reading all of those in savannah so you know.
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Meg Nocero: Not to like ever set bars, not that being an English major when I would have loved to be an English major now in fact I yearn for those book clubs that like to talk about the great works of literature, you know for sure.
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Meg Nocero: But even having those language you know the language as a part of me I my hope i’ll be honest with you my parents would have supported travel if I hadn’t education all bent to it so.
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Meg Nocero: I lived in Italy, my junior year and college, because I was an Italian minor, so I had the option to go live in another country and learn that and I was always like.
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Meg Nocero: How do I break down barriers between conversing with somebody else communication is really important, so by learning another person’s language they feel more comfortable speaking with you, so I was always.
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Meg Nocero: And the people that I have met by virtue of just being fearless in in you know opening my mouth and communicating because I don’t necessarily.
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Meg Nocero: watch how I speak I have been when I was on CNN espanyol I was like this is not going to be in subtitles.
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Meg Nocero: Like i’m gonna have to speak in Spanish and they’re like yeah so I was like let’s do this so you know, for me it was like I was like okay well if someone told me beforehand.
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Meg Nocero: Whether or not I was gonna have to do it in Spanish, I probably would have said no, but because I had to be for us, I was, like all right, well, I guess you know that’s what i’m here, for I can do it let’s do it and.
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Meg Nocero: And it was a great experience it it, you know broke down another barrier another wall, so I don’t feel.
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Meg Nocero: As uncomfortable and i’m like it, you know it is what it is, I can express myself in many different ways and and of Italian all I do is like my hands around a lot, and then you know i’ll do like a spoke.
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Meg Nocero: Which is easy for us right we’re very we’re very emotive right we met with our with our body language as well, so you know that languages for me.
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Meg Nocero: Was you know I love words and playing with words and the sound of words it’s musical it’s very musical to me and.
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Meg Nocero: And, and my ear picks up on music so much better i’ll learn so much better if I have music playing behind me, which is very interesting different knowing of how you learn is a very.
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Meg Nocero: Interesting you know endeavor to look into you know and figure out which has what what capacity, you can actually retain things differently.
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Meg Nocero: i’ll go back in time when I hear a song i’ll remember the exact moment you know because of that memory capture that’s just how my brain works, so when I graduated from law school.
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Meg Nocero: I mean sorry when I did my undergrad I was like what am I going to do now.
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Meg Nocero: So I did apply for law school, but it was in the 90s, it was a recession and I got whitelisted at a couple schools and it didn’t turn out, so I moved back to Orlando and I was like well I gotta figure out what i’m going to do.
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Meg Nocero: And I decided to get my master’s in international studies and it was what brought me to the University of Miami and to Miami and.
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Meg Nocero: That opened up, you know what am I going to do after that I decided to go to law school and it’s really been a kind of like a process of elimination, for me, you know and.
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Meg Nocero: You know I never dreamed of being a lawyer, I can tell you this as someone who was bullied as a child.
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Meg Nocero: I am so grateful for the skills that I have to be able to want to feel confident enough to articulate my arguments on behalf of myself or others.
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Meg Nocero: i’m a real you know it triggers me when I see someone’s not being treated like they should be at least giving a fair shot it’ll like trigger every part of me.
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Meg Nocero: um so i’m very grateful that I have that outlet to be able to help people tell their stories and that kind of that kind of setting as well.
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Mike Malatesta: There was something interesting you said in the middle of all that, when you were describing the CNN espanol the that I think is.
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Mike Malatesta: Like a good lesson for all of us, because sometimes you.
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Mike Malatesta: Something that you are able to do someone asked you to do it in advance and you talk yourself out of it.
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Mike Malatesta: right because you’re like.
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Mike Malatesta: hi I couldn’t possibly do that, even though you, you could, but in this case, they put you on the spot essentially you couldn’t say no right so.
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Meg Nocero: Well, going to you know it’s kind of like when opportunity shows up and we all.
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Meg Nocero: We pray for those opportunities right we pray to get out in front of whatever audience that we feel aligned to and it just happens to be a different unfolding when you actually contemplated well I i’m not one to share, you know I will regret, if I said no to that.
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Mike Malatesta: yeah Okay, and the bullying thing what’s what’s that on what was that about.
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Meg Nocero: You know, when I was growing up, I it’s funny because i’m i’m clearly a people person I thrive with other people.
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Meg Nocero: And you know, the bottom line was, I never found a real a real place when I was a kid because you know i’m the girl shows up with tears, I mean i’m not i’m not necessarily.
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Meg Nocero: A coolie drinker I don’t follow very well if there’s something going on, that is not necessarily.
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Meg Nocero: kosher for me, I will definitely be like no so I did not follow, and I was called out a lot, because I did not come into the fold, so to speak, from the more.
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Meg Nocero: You know I always say popular like kids was a popular people, and you know I had braces in second grade, and you know brace face was a lovely tone back then and.
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Meg Nocero: It just fed into my insecurities and it triggered all of those wonderful you know the naysaying and the sabotage of your life as a kid you know you watch the movies.
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Meg Nocero: And when I watch the movies, and you see the bullied kids a little nerds are all like i’m like Oh, I feel the anger, you know it’s like you know, back then, I keep wanting to say you’re gonna be okay.
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Meg Nocero: you’re gonna be even better, and I can I tell my kids all it all the time you don’t want to peek in high school that is not where do you want to hit your high it’s like there’s such a world out there after the fact that you know.
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Meg Nocero: Do your thing find your niche find your way, and then you know people who don’t work for you just move along and the people who are for you.
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Meg Nocero: just be grateful because that you have them to walk the journey with and, for me it took me a long time, because we all want to be liked in high school or in elementary school for sure.
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Meg Nocero: And it was bad it was terrible I would I would have to like take turns you know, to avoid people because I knew that if I pass certain people, it would be just incessant I was just like.
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Meg Nocero: You know and and you know it’s so funny because, even now, I have to take, I have to take account, like, I have to take notice of what my feelings how that because you’re coming on certain things you’re like oh.
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Meg Nocero: It could happen again, so I might like surprise oh i’m a 50 year old woman now i’m like out myself I don’t care i’m like really.
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Meg Nocero: Really we’re still doing this, but the reality is sometimes those tapes do playback, especially when you’re on the verge of doing something really big in your life and, like you said.
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Meg Nocero: Like if you think about it too long, then you might not want to do it, but if you let it things happen and just say you know, obviously the opportunity, showing up for a reason i’m going to jump into it, because otherwise it wouldn’t be here for me if it weren’t.
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Meg Nocero: For that reason, then I I like I do my rah rah here my cheerleading and i’m like let’s do this, you know so i’ll tell you empathy is a huge thing because I have a ton of empathy for people.
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Meg Nocero: Who who feel you know that you know they’ll never be enough that there’s something wrong with them that they’re never going to be able to rise above because of whatever someone told them in their past.
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Meg Nocero: i’m like really you’re going to give your power away that easily, and I think a lot of leaders, you know for sure the ones that are the best kind of leaders.
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Meg Nocero: can recognize the talent, but also embrace the the hang ups to because we all have them right, we all have them all the time.
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Meg Nocero: And they always this bullies are still around even at our age they’re still there and I see that i’m like.
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Meg Nocero: Your back and I noticed, you know it’s like who hurt you, you know who put you in those positions where you have to feel like you have to make people feel they’re mediocre or less than I, I never get that.
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Mike Malatesta: That sounds a little like.
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Mike Malatesta: The boss, you had at your first law firm as I read in your in your newest book, because you gave me a sample of that.
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Mike Malatesta: He sounded like a person that you were just describing a person who was a leader and had.
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Mike Malatesta: You know I guess a tremendous opportunity to make an impact, one way or the other, and you know, in your case you describe how he chose to make the impact the other way, so your first introduction into being a lawyer was not a plot was not pleasant was not what you were expecting.
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Meg Nocero: No, you know I honestly in even after 20 years, and when I was in a leadership capacity and my own office and my own, you know, I was always.
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Meg Nocero: Really really a big champion to figure out what makes people want to show up in their lives and and, interestingly enough, I never ever imagined that someone on my team would ever be a really great asset, if I put them down.
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Meg Nocero: You know I just like yeah Why would I do that, I mean this is, who I have to work with.
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Meg Nocero: Clearly they’re smart they made it past, you know all the hurdles to get to where they are as lawyers, as you know, as people in their career.
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Meg Nocero: And I was like Why would anyone want to take a resource, it is a resource because someone who could be on your team is a wonder, and I say as a human resource, you have that whole you know.
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Meg Nocero: How can we work together in such a way that we both can shine I never understand people who don’t see it that way, maybe they’re tired.
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Meg Nocero: Maybe that they you know feel like you know they they get to choose who they want to rise, the top I don’t know but i’ll tell you that much.
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Meg Nocero: I think it’s my life lesson that I kept coming into these people, you know, like, once again, here we are the same situations when I was a kid This is my opportunity.
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Meg Nocero: To actually speak up for myself.
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Meg Nocero: and change that narrative I that’s how I see it now, but I wish I didn’t have to go through it and you know but that’s how I see it now, you know opportunity, more so.
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Mike Malatesta: And so let’s talk about the the.
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Mike Malatesta: I don’t know I guess.
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Mike Malatesta: This transformation that we started with at the beginning.
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Mike Malatesta: You you become an attorney for the government, you know for ins ice now where you are actually prosecuting.
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Mike Malatesta: I don’t even know what the right thing to call people now that come into the country illegally, but let’s just call it that people come into the country illegally.
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Meg Nocero: yeah.
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Mike Malatesta: And so I could see.
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Mike Malatesta: mean obviously listen to what you have said i’m putting myself in your shoes and i’m like okay i’m doing the right thing, because these people are you know doing they’re breaking the law.
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Mike Malatesta: I have you mentioned empathy before right and these people are doing these things for good intent for themselves right trying to better themselves, you have to protect law you actually I would imagine your language skills came in really handy when you’re doing that, but I guess ultimately.
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Mike Malatesta: It sounded like when I read about it sounded like you went from being super excited about it to eventually you know it just wore it just kind of wear you down.
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Mike Malatesta: Is that is that.
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Mike Malatesta: No yeah.
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Meg Nocero: yeah it did I think there’s a shelf life to.
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Meg Nocero: litigate in cases and I will be honest with you if, especially if you’re doing it on a daily basis, and you know I think people forget.
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Meg Nocero: That you know what we fill our minds with on a daily you know does in fact you know permeate our skin and they’ll get into our very being, and I think that at the you know at the time I was.
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Meg Nocero: I was handling cases for for almost 20 years and you hear stories and they’re mostly asylum certainly there were cases where individuals, you know.
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Meg Nocero: You know, individuals had done really bad things as far as you know, criminal cases were concerned, so.
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Meg Nocero: You know, it did really get under my skin after a while like I and, especially, you know the whole loss of my own mother.
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Meg Nocero: I didn’t have the wherewithal to hear other people’s stories the same way, because of how depleted, I was at the time that I had.
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Meg Nocero: gone through walking her final life journey with her and when she passed away and then having to go back to work again.
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Meg Nocero: and going back into cases where people will talking about how you know whether it’s true or not they’re still talking about how their families were murdered in their country of origin or something really terrible happen and the rape cases were just so.
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Meg Nocero: difficult because you had to ask those hard questions at the same time balance it against whether the person is credible or not, and after a while you know.
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Meg Nocero: I didn’t want to not believe anybody anymore, you know you become very jaded and I didn’t want to lose that balance that fair and balanced approach to my life, as well as to other people’s stories so.
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Meg Nocero: You know I do believe that you know after you know, after almost 20 years it was just too much for me.
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Meg Nocero: The empathy factor, because I used to take away days like the lot you’ll you’ll you know when people one cases, sometimes I would hug them.
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Meg Nocero: Like they would come up to me, I would never you know I wouldn’t, I feel that there is a decorum you have to keep but you know they were like the happiness and the joy sometimes.
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Meg Nocero: You know they look at you, as if you’re the person keeping me from this happiness and joy and that’s another factor I like.
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Meg Nocero: I want to be happiness and joy in this world, I don’t want to have people walk into court and look at me like they’re terrified you know that was another thing that.
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Meg Nocero: Did bother me after a while, but I did take the public service component very seriously.
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Meg Nocero: I felt it was a very high honor mind to be able to serve my country in that capacity I did see it like that I took an oath of office, so you know when we sign up you take the oath.
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Meg Nocero: So you know, and also to protect the border also there’s some people that are not Nice that come over not just economic refugees and.
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Meg Nocero: And they do terrible things and I had to listen to these terrible things so overall a long time, it does chip away at your resolve and I guess you get to question you have that choice or question whether this is something I want to continue doing for sure.
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Mike Malatesta: yeah as you were saying that I was thinking to myself that.
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Mike Malatesta: You actually put it really well because it doesn’t just get into your mind you said it gets into your body and into your.
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Meg Nocero: into your body right.
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Mike Malatesta: And everything and I thought to myself yeah.
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Mike Malatesta: When you’re in an environment where.
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Mike Malatesta: you’re just so used to people not being truthful.
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to you.
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Mike Malatesta: You can’t help but become the person who just doesn’t accept people for at face value anymore, because.
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Mike Malatesta: Because you’ve been burned, maybe too many times right.
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Meg Nocero: Oh, my God and the fact of the matter and I love that you, you pointed that out as well.
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Meg Nocero: Is my children hated it because I don’t believe anything that they’re essentially the teenagers right, you know i’m like you can’t lie to me.
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Meg Nocero: Like i’ve been studying body language and how people are when they started about to tell some whoppers you know i’m like this is not going to happen well for you and.
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Meg Nocero: But the reality is is that you don’t want to have to show up all the time, questioning other people’s motives and their their reason for telling you certain things and.
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Meg Nocero: And you trust you know that becomes a very important thing integrity is another important thing for me and and you know that joy it does take away from that as well that joy factor yeah.
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Mike Malatesta: there’s no toy it’s.
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Meg Nocero: Not when you’re not not like, if I were sitting here analyzing your motive is for having conversations with me or whatever it’s not an exciting experience you know it’d be more like why why you know.
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Meg Nocero: Other than you know being here in conversation with you just experiencing you know your story, as well as mine it’s a different it’s a different complete experience, and I wanted the different experience I didn’t want.
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Meg Nocero: The same before I wasn’t the judge, I was the prosecutor, so I was the one pulling apart the story the judges, the one that makes the determination.
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Meg Nocero: As to whether or not you know one side made their case or not, and you know it’s funny because.
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Meg Nocero: I before I left, I was contemplating actually going into that role, which you know may have been a better role, but I was so burnt out.
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Meg Nocero: That I was like I can’t do this anymore I just can’t I was having anxiety attacks literally in court and had to bring myself back into my body, because I was taking a flight of creative know notions and while I was sitting there, which is not a fun experience, by the way.
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Mike Malatesta: And that’s so I never really I didn’t really think about that you know if you had become a judge you know a lot of people think oh that’s great or judges.
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Mike Malatesta: You know, a wonderful position, but maybe it just actually escalates the anxiety because, as a prosecutor you’re you’re making a case, if you judge doesn’t agree with you.
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Mike Malatesta: Okay, you move on right, but the judge has to live with every decision that he or she makes right and and you make wrong lines, no matter yeah you make wrong ones and it’s hard to.
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Mike Malatesta: yeah anyway um so this vision that I that I mentioned in the in the in the intro can you talk, can you talk to me about the vision.
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Meg Nocero: So when my mother passed away.
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Meg Nocero: We you know, I have to tell you I never believed, she was going to die, I was she was 67 years old, she was completely fit before she got can I mean she was before she had cancer.
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Meg Nocero: And I was sure that there was something that that we all could do to help her and she could help her like she did everything nutrition, etc, etc, etc.
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Meg Nocero: And we are at her at her bedside and she was very, very sick very ill she had just done her last round.
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Meg Nocero: Of chemo and chemo is a bear I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced anyone who’s who’s had to go through that it is life depleting I know certainly is a life saving.
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Meg Nocero: For a lot of people, but after a certain point time you know, sometimes it outweighs the good that can do to a body, and she certainly was.
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Meg Nocero: undergoing those effects, while she was pretty much in a induced coma and and we were praying over her one at one particular evening or morning actually.
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Meg Nocero: And I had a vision of a lighthouse and it was very strange because it was really beautiful lighthouse it was not a normal lighthouse and.
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Meg Nocero: There was a beautiful blue sky you know what it reminded me of I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the vistas of Santorini in Greece.
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Meg Nocero: Where those that they had the white the white caps you guys all have to go look at it’s absolutely stunning there’s pictures of Santorini in Greece, where they have the white.
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Meg Nocero: The right roofs and it’s against the blue skies that’s what I saw and then I saw a burst of light and I felt her say to me, let me go and.
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Meg Nocero: I was like oh my God this can’t be happening she she can’t be going, and then, when I opened my eyes, I looked at my my dad and my sister who were there with me and and I, and I said she’s going, and she had passed away.
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Meg Nocero: Not even moments after and and and I was not, not just in shock, I was devastated devastated I certainly wasn’t ready to accept that reality and.
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Meg Nocero: Fast forward, I never let the lighthouse go and I, you know, certainly was like why why am.
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Meg Nocero: I Why am I seeing a lighthouse you know why is that what she shows me why is that in so many words, the last visual she gives me with the words, let me go and.
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Meg Nocero: You know, being a wordsmith I just like held on to it, I wanted to know, but she wasn’t there so tell me why anymore, why would you show me that you know it’s like how that happened, why are you showing me this and.
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Meg Nocero: I had to go find out for myself and that really was after I had to like go through, obviously the shock of grieving after that I had turned around, and you know really evaluate.
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Meg Nocero: What I wanted next because she also told me when she was able to speak that stress overwhelming stress will kill you and regrets are not something you want to have, at the end of your days.
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Mike Malatesta: And okay so that’s pretty powerful now how.
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Mike Malatesta: What did you do with it, so you had this happen, what did what did you.
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Mike Malatesta: study on it did you think about it for a long time, did you take immediate action, because you just knew that you know, there was a new path for you what how did you navigate it.
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Meg Nocero: um well with the lighthouse it always in the back of my mind, I was unsure you know why this image was the last I would experience.
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Meg Nocero: In her living presence, because she was still alive when she she gave me that visual certainly.
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Meg Nocero: The beautiful part about paying attention to signs and I do, I will say this to anyone who is.
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Meg Nocero: Really contemplating a major life change or anyone who pays attention to their surroundings, you know or anyone who who becomes really intuitively focused as to what it is that they want their intention, etc.
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Meg Nocero: The beautiful thing about signs, is that we can interpret them, however, we choose, you know, and someone other than me may have just you know Okay, I saw it out i’m crazy I just Okay, you know that’s it.
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Meg Nocero: or because i’m such and I will say this, I am not the kid when I was a kid why why why why why why why why I would be only say why give me an answer to that why Why is this happening, and because i’m that why person.
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Meg Nocero: I wanted to know why, and what ultimately happened or answers to my questions came to reality, so, for instance.
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Meg Nocero: I was introduced to the works of Paulo Coelho and I started reading voraciously I would not like.
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Meg Nocero: You know, being the literature guru or English major that you are, you know that you know books are the you know the open to another world for so many people, and I was trying to answer my why.
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Meg Nocero: Through someone else’s words, so I would look to any kind of book that really spoke to me, and that, ultimately, is what happened was result of my magical guide to bliss I wrote.
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Meg Nocero: A guide for myself, but one of the guru’s of my guide, I would say the mentor that i’ve never met, and I would probably pass out if I did meet him this bottle Coelho and he wrote a book called the pilgrimage.
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Meg Nocero: And in the pilgrimage he walks to a place called phoenix steady and in phoenix steady it means this world this world meets the next so.
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Meg Nocero: Traditionally, many people would take the spiritual pilgrimage to fitness day and, at the end, they would burn their clothes in a ritual as if they are leaving all the past behind and embracing their future because.
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Meg Nocero: They really believed that back in the day that there was the ocean, at the end up being a steady and there was nothing else look at the world was flat back then right it wasn’t around world that you know and they really believed that is where this world met the heavens and.
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Meg Nocero: When I saw the lighthouse happiness today, I was like oh my God that’s the lighthouse I saw whether it it, it was unusual it was different it was that and I was like well, I have to walk that.
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Meg Nocero: I don’t know, I have to figure out Maybe my y will be answered.
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Meg Nocero: On that that that walk and you know I didn’t know when I was going to go I didn’t know how I was going to have that was going to happen, but I was definitely determined to answer that why.
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Meg Nocero: And that is what I got my message at the end, but reality is so funny because, even if you look back into his books, the alchemist you know he always says.
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Meg Nocero: You know, you might travel the world to find your answers but there right right those neath you the whole time right it’s.
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Meg Nocero: But you have to see what the lesson is and that goes back to the whole bullying, you know.
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Meg Nocero: These opportunities in life, they show up over and over so you learn a lesson, so you can get past it and a lot of the how’d it happen comes up because you figure out you’re strong enough.
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Meg Nocero: To move on to the next next level or the next call in your life and the answer to that question becomes the answer to your why.
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Mike Malatesta: I love, how you said that.
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Mike Malatesta: We can interpret signs, however, we want that’s a very powerful statement because.
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Mike Malatesta: So many people are always searching for what a sign means and I don’t think a lot of people feel like they had necessarily have the power to.
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Mike Malatesta: decide what it means, and then move ahead with whatever that decision was because you.
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Mike Malatesta: can say that’s not what it was.
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Meg Nocero: yeah do you ever asked yourself when you’re doing your shows, and this person is showing up in my life.
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Meg Nocero: And i’m curious as to the why so so go back to like say you know the whole.
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Meg Nocero: You know Shakespeare all the world’s a stage right and people come in and out of your stage right every day someone shows up and they.
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Meg Nocero: offer you perhaps like the answer to the riddle so that you can go on to the next stage of your life right, the question is, is that.
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Meg Nocero: Are you paying attention that was the whole idea behind my 10 it was like wake up, people are showing up all days and answer to what you’re asking for your prayers.
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Meg Nocero: But sometimes we don’t recognize it because we’re not paying attention and that key to your financial success to your relational success to your any success.
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Meg Nocero: might be showing up knocking on the door and you just don’t want to answer it, you know because you’re like i’m too busy doing something else and.
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Mike Malatesta: And then they must be at the wrong door.
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Meg Nocero: that’s.
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Mike Malatesta: The wrong door yeah.
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Meg Nocero: Are you bothering me, you know, or you know but it’s like hello, you know.
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Meg Nocero: You know signs are what they are and they can be just completely there, or we can interpret them to have some greater meaning and you’ve heard of many people who have done really great things in their lives.
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Meg Nocero: And that’s because they they answer that call those signs in a certain way that whenever they needed they take it as the interpretation and they use that to their benefit to empower them further, which I find fascinating I like human spirit is just amazing to me for sure.
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Mike Malatesta: yeah that’s a good point because you you, you have to be looking for it, you have to recognize it and then you have to open the door, you have to let it in.
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Mike Malatesta: Right it’s a three step process and.
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Mike Malatesta: You know, not everybody wants to take all three steps right.
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Meg Nocero: Before the third step, you know if you need a break you take it relax relax a little and there enough.
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Meg Nocero: Fair enough.
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Mike Malatesta: Did you did you start writing your first book, by the way the way you describe it in your closet.
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Mike Malatesta: You know you live in a condo you talk about your writing room, you know you didn’t have a writing room and so you actually I thought I saw a picture I think of your first thing in your closet which that was very sweet.
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Mike Malatesta: But it also was it just struck me as another thing like oh I don’t have a place to write I can’t write, I have a place to write yeah well here’s a place that I made into my writing area but did you you start writing your first book before you left.
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Mike Malatesta: Your job.
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Mike Malatesta: As a lawyer or did you wait and just it was a clean break and then get started.
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Meg Nocero: Now it’s been a 10 year process.
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Meg Nocero: My first yeah.
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Meg Nocero: yeah I will say the beginnings of my first book if you’re talking about.
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Mike Malatesta: magical God to bless him yeah.
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Meg Nocero: yeah came from talking about finding a place to write I used to so I have tinnitus, which is a loud screaming in your head it, you know and and I haven’t very managed now yes it’s it’s in.
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Meg Nocero: Your shirts right but it doesn’t necessarily come from your ears, it could actually come from your nervous system, just showing up as if it’s a sound in your ears, because I have gotten.
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Meg Nocero: Every test my my hearing it, you know my ears there they’re fine I mean my hearing, maybe a little bit more damage because of the damage for the years you know from the ringing but.
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Meg Nocero: there’s no there’s no abnormalities and, like my MRI or anything so.
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Meg Nocero: It came out for me as an issue with my nervous system, so I had to figure out, which is baffling is something that so you know intangible and having to actually.
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Meg Nocero: Have the you know I had the pet, no one can fix new the pill, I had to actually go with an to calm myself.
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Meg Nocero: Which is for type a crazy person like like I said crazy awesome you know person like me, you know where I have to settle down, you know, so how I decided to settle down was I would get on a stationary bike.
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Meg Nocero: And ride for 30 minutes it’s settled my head to be quite honest, I think, say endorphin kicks like for exercise you find an exercise that speaks to you, and you can actually calm yourself.
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Meg Nocero: And I was right, I would write what would come through my mind, so I could hear better so talk about not having a place to write I found an exercise bike in our gym and every day I would show up with.
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Meg Nocero: A book with my Journal and with my pen and I would write every every day, and I would share what I wrote and it turned into my 366 insights the day, so I basically wrote myself.
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Meg Nocero: a guide to lead myself to a place where I wanted to go, rather than I had to go so like I didn’t get stuck I didn’t feel stuck so that started.
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Meg Nocero: November, you know that was that started soon thereafter I my mother passed away she passed away April 2011 so it’s coming up on 11 years this next April.
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Meg Nocero: But even the memoir you know, I was taking it all in as I was experiencing it because that was the only way I could control what was happening around me.
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Meg Nocero: It felt too heavy it felt too much so, if I put it in words on the paper, I felt like I could hold on.
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Meg Nocero: To some sort of reality, at the same time not get lost in the anxiety of what was actually unfolding.
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Meg Nocero: which you know, for me, is very effective, especially because I do get i’m prone to anxiety attacks the creative brain just goes off on it’s you know it’s a way and I can’t really grab on to you know the.
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Meg Nocero: The logical side, which you know is how i’ve dealt with a lot of that you know a lot of multiplication tables will bring you back into your body, something that will take you away from that’s no illusion that’s not real come back in so.
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Meg Nocero: For this scroll like personality that I have you know, always a good.
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Meg Nocero: Exercise brought me to a centering place and I was able to write and the writing also felt like I was being heard by myself, I was able to hear.
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Meg Nocero: what was happening and it didn’t stay in my head, it was on the paper, so I can let it go, which you know, is another thing, but he said, let me go.
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Meg Nocero: that’s how I was able to do it.
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Mike Malatesta: So you’ve been so if I heard you right between all of that you’ve been kind of writing multiple books, at the same time, as you just process your thoughts and write them down i’m sure they don’t right they don’t go into a book when your journaling on a stationary bike or.
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Mike Malatesta: But you, but the fact that you get them out of your head down is not only.
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Mike Malatesta: mean that’s your creative process, it makes you feel better, but it also is is a way for you to be organizing all these different thoughts, at the same time, so it sounds like my on the right track there.
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Meg Nocero: Absolutely, you know, one of the most effective things that I ever was introduced to and my work life it’s called the mind down this David Allen.
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Meg Nocero: suggests that you know every Monday you sit on your table.
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Meg Nocero: And just to clear your head you just put everything you can imagine, on a piece of paper that you feel like you have to do.
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Meg Nocero: All these things that you take up that space in your brain that you can be creative just put it on the paper you capture it.
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Meg Nocero: And it’s there, and you don’t have to think about what am I missing what am I worried about what So for me that has played over into into business as well how I engage in that.
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Meg Nocero: That component, as well the writing of course for me, you know i’ve been known to take a pen and write on my hand, not to lose you know the idea, especially when i’m.
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Meg Nocero: sleeping I have a journal by my bed, because I get some great stuff you know from my dreams, too, so you know and i’ve heard it said that some of the most incredible discoveries.
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Meg Nocero: Are you know when you’re you’re in the shower we’re one you know because you’re like relaxing into the idea and then also when you wake up in the morning just completely you know.
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Meg Nocero: components on paper just throw it on there just get it out of your head and then see what’s happening and and I know Julia cameron’s morning pages she suggests that that’s, the first thing you do.
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Meg Nocero: Every time you wake up is right, you know, three pages long hand, of whatever is in your head and there’s some magic there that you won’t lose because you’ve captured it.
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Mike Malatesta: it’s got it i’ve tried that I have to say i’ve tried it and it’s been very challenging for me to do that, you feel like oh you just get up and you know write three pages like that’s just going to be.
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Mike Malatesta: easy and flow and I have tried it and I just been.
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Mike Malatesta: You know I just it’s just a struggle it’s hard to get through it and I suppose it’s probably meant to be hard because it’s a practice and a habit, just like anything but.
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Mike Malatesta: I came up against that wall and I stopped where it sounds like you.
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You know.
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Meg Nocero: Well, I will say.
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Meg Nocero: I will say to you, if you know i’m brutally honest to myself a lot of times, but the whole bottom line is that what works for me then right.
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Meg Nocero: asked me if i’ve done morning pages and quite a bit especially you know, promoting my book, and everything to that effect, you know I I do make it a practice.
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Meg Nocero: to wake up, I have another my second book is called sparkle and shine.
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Meg Nocero: And it’s based upon my mantras next mantras and I love doing that because, for me, every morning I do my mantra practice I definitely encapsulate it in a writing sample.
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Meg Nocero: And I do shoot it out on instagram because I love the visuals of the pictures but it’s something that keeps it going it keeps it alive, because I don’t have a lot of time.
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Meg Nocero: To just settle down and write, which I want to do, by the way, I want to do, but I go back to you, you know, sometimes there’s a practice.
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Meg Nocero: that you have done that works for you, but at certain times in your life, it might not doesn’t mean that you can’t be flexible, with it, and certainly you know you have a book so clearly, you are able.
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Meg Nocero: To you know to successfully sit down and create something amazing to share with other people certainly what the writing and the ownership, but you know for me it’s kind of like embracing the you know.
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Meg Nocero: possibilities that something else might work at a different time in my life never been like fixated in one thing, so I can’t grow because I don’t want to.
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Meg Nocero: I don’t want to break myself or sabotage myself by saying oh look now look, if you look at you you’ve come so far, and you did so well, and then you just want it’s all gone, but no maybe now it just needs a different.
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Meg Nocero: unfolding or different you know iteration in my life because i’ve grown differently than the writing has changed and the story may have changed for me.
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Mike Malatesta: So when with the time we have left mega I want to cover two things first of all I want to explore bliss I want to, I want to understand how you came upon that word and chose it.
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Mike Malatesta: Because it’s I mean it’s a word that I know and i’ve heard that I don’t it’s not sort of.
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Mike Malatesta: widely used, and I think the second thing I want to talk about is your latest book and I want to understand.
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Mike Malatesta: What what you’re what you know why you wrote it what you’re trying to accomplish and how people can benefit from from grabbing it and reading it or listening to it, or whatever is available.
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Meg Nocero: So Joseph Campbell says follow your bliss right and the doors will open where the window is Russia or the other way around, or the windows open when the doors are shut anyway.
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Meg Nocero: I just gravitated to that it sounds beautiful to me off the Tongue, it sounds to me like something I want to strive for, or even embody at times.
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Meg Nocero: I have had experience, where i’ve experienced true bliss and you know moments in time I don’t experience it on an everyday basis, but when I do.
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Meg Nocero: It it’s when my you know my I get goosebumps and it might be just a moment you know, in time, but reality is is that.
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Meg Nocero: You know happiness is everyone struggle in this world, you know we do things because we think that they’re going to make us happy and I, and I think that you know, going back to to the basics, certainly the basics of.
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Meg Nocero: You know why we’re all here Why have I showed up on this world like what’s my calling what’s my purpose, you know that’s for me the philosophical basics of life right.
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Meg Nocero: What is it that we’re going to at the end of our days be proud of, and I think when I feel at a place of happiness and bliss.
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Meg Nocero: it’s probably because I have engaged with others in such a way that i’m inspired and woke you know woke you know i’m awake and i’m conscious.
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Meg Nocero: And there’s something really magical to be told or seen or experienced.
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Meg Nocero: And it’s like you take this opportunity this once around that we all experience and you really took it and made something of it for yourself that aligns with you and my bliss might not be yours Mike and i’d be another person’s.
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Meg Nocero: But I honor that I honor that part of me, and I think happy people you know want other people to be happy and hurt people when other people are hurt so.
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Meg Nocero: If i’m yearning for that you know state of nirvana I don’t know if some people call it that, or just really contentment that i’m in this world doing something.
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Meg Nocero: of service, and not just like my parents were very, very, very focused on the fact just don’t be here, take up space.
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Meg Nocero: Nobody owes you anything right, you need to come to this world take those gifts that God gave you and I will say God my my terminology I use that.
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Meg Nocero: And you know don’t waste it don’t waste this opportunity so certainly Joseph Campbell and the hero’s journey he writes about, and you know the whole idea about you know what movies, do we love, more than anything, maybe Star Wars it’s all built upon that.
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Meg Nocero: mark and.
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Meg Nocero: Alex Turner and, at the end you’re like sharing the guy on like I want to cheer other people on like that that is a bliss there’s nothing better.
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Meg Nocero: For me, than back to the movies, going to a movie and, at the end going through that whole drama with somebody and then coming out the other end just feeling elated.
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Meg Nocero: elated it stirs that emotion in you, where you can be like ah, the possibilities of life, how wonderful right I love those movies.
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Meg Nocero: I truly believed when I set out to write my third book butterfly awakens that for me and i’m talking about that negotiation process, we all have in our you know internal mind the mine or the whole okay.
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Meg Nocero: I did not want to live, when my mother died, I did not want to go on, I had tonight is it was maddening I had insomnia, that was driving me crazy.
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Meg Nocero: I felt like oh my God this can’t be the rest of my life and I don’t have her and she was truly a champion for me like she was.
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Meg Nocero: a place where I could go to have the conversations that excited me that were blissful right and I had two kids at the time, I still have two kids Thank you God.
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Meg Nocero: two and seven eight years old and I turned around and I looked at my life, and I said I can’t do that to that, so I better figure out how to.
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Meg Nocero: save myself at that point right, you know how to turn this around because for me.
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Meg Nocero: to live like that, coming from a place where I was a happy joyful creative imaginative person was unacceptable to me I just couldn’t imagine.
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Meg Nocero: I had a lot of help, by the way, I had a lot of people who showed up in my life and didn’t let me stay where I was and that dark place in my closet.
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Meg Nocero: So the closet became somewhere that you know was isolating and then it became somewhere where I started writing right my journey of writing so I became able to I was able to reach out to other people through my words, so I promised myself.
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Meg Nocero: That I would be vulnerable with my story when I walked through it, I had to have a good ending because remember yay the theater I want everyone to cheer.
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Mike Malatesta: heroes gotta win right.
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Meg Nocero: And I was like I will not buy into those you know archaic, perhaps you know you know filming, why are you know where people like felt like I don’t feel good or I wasn’t.
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Mike Malatesta: Why did I come here, yes.
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Meg Nocero: I wanted you know my life is still you know the journey keeps going I after I finished can be you know I kept i’m still in this life.
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Meg Nocero: And I have good days and I have bad days and I but i’m able to take the lessons learned from my own hero’s journey.
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Meg Nocero: and share them with others, because for me the evidence show that i’m stronger than I thought I was going back to the law background.
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Meg Nocero: And I can make an argument for my life, now I can make an argument that you know, there are hard times we have losses, we go through periods of pandemics and we don’t know why you know this is happening.
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Meg Nocero: But there is always a silver lining for me and i’m going to find it and.
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Meg Nocero: One of my favorite things I ever heard anyone say about movies, is the best movies, or when you you end and the conversation begins, so what I wanted for my book.
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Meg Nocero: Was from when the last page is done I wanted the conversation to begin that there’s hope in transformation there’s possibility, if you keep walking through the grief the pain, whatever challenges come up and that your story is going to impact someone else.
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Mike Malatesta: well.
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Mike Malatesta: For first off Thank you so much for the wonderful explanation of bliss I it was it was just amazing.
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Mike Malatesta: to watch you and listen to you kind of go into that whole thing because I thought.
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Mike Malatesta: You know, there would be some sort of.
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Mike Malatesta: You know.
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Mike Malatesta: rehearse like bliss is whatever you say in your you know, but it wasn’t that it was actually like.
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Mike Malatesta: You took us through the whole exploration to get to why it’s so beautiful, so thank thank, thank you for that, and thank you so much for sharing.
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Mike Malatesta: Not only what happened.
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Mike Malatesta: To you, and the reason you wanted to write the book, but also the message of hope that we all need more of, and you can you know you you, you can come out of.
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Mike Malatesta: very traumatic very difficult circumstances and and you can move on and life can actually be better, as a result of the experience that you went through you so everything is an opportunity, even when it feels like you know, a kick in the teeth.
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Mike Malatesta: yeah worse or ringing in the ears, or what.
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Mike Malatesta: else.
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Mike Malatesta: Oh lordy Meg Thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your story with with with me and with everybody listening it’s.
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Mike Malatesta: it’s really been a pleasure to get to know you a little bit better and and and to experience you I guess is where i’ll leave it because experiencing you is is is joyful.
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Mike Malatesta: just say it.
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Mike Malatesta: Think now I.
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Mike Malatesta: I let people know at the beginning, how to get Ahold of you, I think I covered that, but do you want to reiterate anything you want just what do you want people to know if anything else.
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Meg Nocero: You did a great job I you know I i’m so grateful to those who support you know support butterfly awakens.
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Meg Nocero: If you need you know, certainly more inspiration email me, I am a big cheerleader too, I think that that’s a beautiful thing.
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Meg Nocero: When you have walked through a certain journey to turn around and help others, you know I do believe.
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Meg Nocero: That helping is not doing for someone else it’s just perhaps showing them that they have what they need within to grab onto and that they’re more powerful and stronger than they could ever imagine, so I definitely would open.
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Meg Nocero: The conversation with that, certainly if you do feel like you’re in a loss, please you know reach out and i’m happy to you know, perhaps offer you a bit of inspiration that can turn that to something a possibility as well.
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Mike Malatesta: Right Okay, you can help them here the knock and open the door.
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Meg Nocero: Yes, open the door open it might be some unless you’re obviously led by yourself and it’s really late at night in the gun you don’t.
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Mike Malatesta: have to put some some safety boundaries on.
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Meg Nocero: The limitation don’t do that yeah I will not ever put you in harm’s way ever that is for sure for sure.
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Meg Nocero: Anyway, well, I can’t wait to interview you Mike on my show I can turn it around and have the conversation.
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Meg Nocero: How happened happened again very definitely looking forward to that make thanks so much.
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Meg Nocero: Thank you so much, have a great day, everyone.
