From homeless to hero, Michael Unbroken is the Founder of Think Unbroken, a serial entrepreneur, business coach, and advocate for adult survivors of childhood trauma. Michael started his first business when he was only eight years old and rose through the ranks to become an executive at thirty-three. Since then, he has worked with Fortune 500 organizations, small business owners, and entrepreneurs to help them gain clarity on their brand positioning, marketing value, and missions. He has won investments from Undercover Billionaire Grant Cardone and is on a quest to end Generational Trauma in his lifetime.
Michael Unbroken is also the best-selling author of “Think Unbroken: Understanding and Overcoming Childhood Trauma,” an award-winning speaker that has given speeches in more than 80 countries and the host of the Think Unbroken Podcast. In his show, Michael provides the listeners with practical skills and advice for understanding and overcoming mental health blockages, CPTSD, and childhood trauma to become the hero of their own stories. Experts, researchers, psychiatrists, therapists, and change-makers in the trauma and CPTSD recovery area are also featured on the show.
The Decision That Changed Everything
Michael’s upbringings were not easy, as he had to face a wide variety of traumas that shaped the first part of his life.
- His emotionally abusive mother, a drug addict and alcoholic cut off his right index finger when he was four years old. His stepfather abused him when he was six years old, and he was hospitalized.
- He was assaulted by a Mormon Church den mother when he was seven years old.
- From the ages of 8 to 12, he was frequently homeless and in dire poverty, and he did all he could to live, including stealing food and showering only at school.
- At the age of 12, he became high for the first time, and at the age of 13, he became drunk. He was expelled from school at the age of 15 for selling narcotics.
- At the age of 18 and began seeking money to fix his troubles, only to find himself in an even darker place.
By the age of 25, Michael was at his lowest: he weighed 350 pounds, smoked two packs of cigarettes a day, drank himself to sleep, and attempted suicide for the second time. That’s when he took the decision that changed everything: he decided to stop being a victim of trauma and to be the hero of his own story. Since then, he’s helped over 100,000 trauma survivors to get out of what he calls The Vortex, learn to love themselves and become the hero of their own story.
And now here’s Michael Unbroken.
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Podcast with Michael Unbroken. Trust Your Gut.
life, people, michael, unbroken, decision, gut, podcast, book, mike, day, broken, thinking, years, indiana, business, job, money, trauma, question, feel
Michael Unbroken, Mike Malatesta
Mike Malatesta 06:58
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the How’d It Happen Podcast. I’m so grateful to have you here, as I am with every episode. And before we get started with today’s guests, I just want to read a recent review on Apple’s Apple podcast app that gave me a lot of joy. It says authentic and dot, dot dot. And it’s left from Embrace the Lead. And it says “great interview with Jay Rifenbary; I appreciate Mike’s challenging questions of all of all his guests. This episode was a perfect example of Mike asking the question I was thinking, as Jay was speaking. Thank you, Mike, for going deeper than a simple interview, and challenging your guests to truly dive into the truth behind their message”. And I read that today (1) because I thought it was cool and (2) because I would like to ask you to consider, if you haven’t already leaving a rating and a review for the podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts, whether it’s on Apple, Google, Stitcher, Spotify, iHeart Radio, or, or wherever, just go to the place where you can leave a review. Leave me a review. If it’s five star, great. If it’s four, great. If it’s one, tell me where I need to get better. And give me some thoughts about it. Because it really, I think, helps make the show better. And it certainly helps get the show noticed. So enough, self-promotion out of the way. I’m going to move on to you with my promise of another amazing success story. And I’ve got Michael Unbroken on the podcast with me today. Michael, welcome to the show.
Michael Unbroken 08:41
Mike, my pleasure, brother. Thank you for having me here.
Mike Malatesta 08:45
It’s my pleasure for having you, and I came upon Michael on another podcast that I was listening to and I don’t actually remember which one it was, but I was so blown away with what he was talking about and how he was talking about it that I reached out directly and I said, Hey, if there’s a chance for me to have you on my podcast, I’d love to, and thankfully he responded with an affirmative Yes. So let me tell you a little bit about Michael before we get started. From homeless to hero, Michael Unbroken is the founder of Think Unbroken, a serial entrepreneur, the bestselling author of the book, Think Unbroken, an award-winning speaker, the host of the Think Unbroken Podcast, a business coach and an advocate for adult survivors of childhood trauma. Michael started his first business at only eight years old, became an executive at 33 and has worked with multi fortune 500 brands, small business owners and entrepreneurs to get clarity on their brand-positioning, marketing value and missions. Michael spoken in over 80 countries. One investments from under undercover billionaire Grant Cardone and is on a mission to end generational trauma in his lifetime. You can connect with Michael on his websites, which are thinkunbroken.com and thinkunbrokenbusiness.com — Yep, they’re separate. Okay, so thinkunbroken.com, thinkunbrokenbusiness.com, and on Instagram @Michaelunbroken. So with that, Michael, I start every podcast with the same simple question. And that is, how did happen for you?
Michael Unbroken 10:28
I made a decision. You know, I think that people are always looking for the magic pill. They’re always looking for that one piece of advice, Mike, that will change your life forever. And I’m going to give it to you right now make a decision.
Mike Malatesta 10:52
And what was your decision? Right, Michael,
Michael Unbroken 10:54
my decision was to put myself first to do the work to show up to do the hard things to build my confidence and self esteem around my effort and not the goal, to become a learner to dive into personal development to do whatever it took to realize the dreams that I had to write down my goals every day to move forward in the world, like I mattered to make decisions that were difficult time and time and time again, because I knew that if I did, eventually, I could be sitting and having a conversation with you.
Mike Malatesta 11:29
And what was the thing that? What was the thing that happened? Or what point in your life did you get to when you made that decision? Or what was the impetus for making that decision?
Michael Unbroken 11:40
You know, the the truth is, and maybe a little context would be helpful here. If I give you kind of a highlight of how I got to where I was in a couple minutes here. You know, at four years old, my mother who’s a drug addict and alcoholic, she actually cut off my right index finger. My stepfather was super abusive. He put me in the hospital multiple times. I was homeless as a kid, I lived with 33 Zero different families. As a child, when I was 12, my grandmother adopted me if you’re listening, I’m biracial, and black and white. My grandmother is a really old racist white lady from a town in Tennessee you never heard of. Right. I got hired for the first time when I was 12. Drunk at 13, expelled from school at 15. And then I’ve got put into a last chance program still didn’t graduate high school started chasing money, legally, which is important. And I landed a job with a fortune 10 company at 20 years old, no high school diploma, no college educated and started making the six figures. And then my life just became a complete nightmare. Because I hadn’t done any of the work. I hadn’t stepped into healing yet. And I found myself heading into 26 350 pounds, smoking two packs a day drinking myself to sleep. And that’s when I attempted suicide. I was just done like, money was supposed to solve my problems. And it didn’t. Well, what happened the next day, I was laying in bed. You’re asking me about the decision. I’m laying in bed. So 11 o’clock in the morning. Keep in mind, I’m 350 pounds. I’m smoking a joint, eating chocolate cake and watching the CrossFit Games. Like dude, if that’s not rock bottom, I don’t know what it is. And I got up and I went in the bathroom and I looked at myself in the mirror and I asked myself, What are you willing to do to have the life that you want to have? And I remember being eight years old and the water company turning off our water grew up in Indiana blistering hot, Indiana summer, August day. And I took this little blue bucket from the backyard and walked across the street to neighbor’s house. I turned on their spicket. And for the first time in my life, I stole water. And I said when I’m a grown up, this will not be my life. And it wasn’t from a financial aspect, but it was in every other way. And as I’m here having this memory looking in the mirror, I asked myself a question. What was I willing to do to have the life that I wanted to have? And the words No excuses, just results started reverberating in my body. And that was the decision I made. I made a choice to stop putting up with my own bullshit and create change in my life and stop playing the victim. 11 years later here I am talking to you.
Mike Malatesta 14:41
I think it’s I I’m gonna use the word funny. It’s not funny at all you. You describe this childhood that you had. You didn’t call you didn’t call that a nightmare. What you call it a nightmare was what happened after you got this great job at the fortune 10 or 20 company. I thought that was really cool. An interesting description and how did you how did you come to get that job, Michael? So I mean, you’re you show up and like you said no high school diploma? Arguably, no, I don’t know what the job was. So maybe it’ll, that’ll that’ll tell me but arguably not in not in the ideal position to be considered as a candidate for that kind of company. I’m thinking,
Michael Unbroken 15:22
yeah, so, you know, and a great point about the way I decipher between what was a nightmare and what was not. Yeah, and, and, and, and that comes from the reality that I’m not culpable for the bad things that happened to me as a child. Nobody is. I’m only responsible for the choices I make today. And so I think that’s why I look at those things ago. I didn’t have control over it. It sucks. Yes, but I can’t let that be the thing that keeps me stuck. So after not graduating high school on time, I’m, I thought I was going to join the military. Mike, I had two goals as a child, don’t die, become a Marine Corps Scout Sniper. Those were my two goals. But my senior year, I tore my patellar tendon and a bursa sac in my right knee, couldn’t pass maps passed as Bab could have literally done any job I wanted to. And that job that I wanted was a Marine Corps Scout Sniper couldn’t get in. And I was like, Okay, I don’t actually know what to do with my life now. And that was terrifying to me. And I was in this position, I was working these random jobs, you know, warehouse jobs, server jobs, you know, bullshit stuff. And I thought to myself, I want to make $100,000 a year. And doing it legally was so incredibly important. I have family in prison for life. I’ve been in handcuffs. And as of today, my three childhood best friends have been murdered. I was on my way there, Mike. I was in the streets. I was selling drugs, breaking the houses, stealing cars, running with guns running from the cops. It was inevitable. But I made that decision. I said, do this legally. And I got a job. Because it was the only thing that made sense. In my mind. I got a job working for a fast food restaurant as a manager. And from that, I ended up becoming a general manager in training. And I started making like, $35,000 a year, which when you’re 18, that’s like a million baht. Right? Yeah. But but the thing that happened, I started learning all of these incredible skills. As a child, I had 52 people under me, I was scheduling, I was doing inventory, I was doing payroll, I was doing shrink and loss. I was doing everything that you do as someone as a general manager would without getting paid for it. And like, it was amazing, because the two people that I learned under taught me so much about what it means to be a manager to be a leader and to run a business. And so I did that for a couple of years. And it’s exhausting. Dude, it is the most exhausting thing I have ever done in my life. I’d go to work at four o’clock in the afternoon, get off at two in the morning, have a day off, come back at 6am work till four in the afternoon. And I did that rinse and repeat for two years. And I was having a conversation with a friend. I’m going to age myself slightly here on MySpace. And this friend of mine had went to the same high school as me, we grew up in the same neighborhood. We did the same things, right. And he had gotten a job working for an insurance company. And Mike that blew my fucking mind, dude, I didn’t know you could do that. I didn’t know you could do that. And I was sitting there. I was like, Oh, I know how to make this 100,000 Because I thought it was gonna be fast food. I thought I’d become a regional manager. That was the path. I was like my time I’m 21 I’ll be a regional manager. And, and so I was like, No, I don’t want to do this. And so for the next year, right, from 19 and a half to 20 and a half. I just got better at writing resumes, interviewing, writing cover letters, I must have went on 20 interviews in a year with only insurance companies. All of them turned me down except one. And the one who didn’t happen to be a fortune 10 company. It was the last interview I did as that goes, of course. And I came in as an assistant to a sales agent. And then I became a sales agent. And then I got licensed to sell insurance in 48 states. And then I built a book of business. And then shortly after I turned 21 I cashed my first check for $10,000 and immediately went and spent it at the mall. So you know it was just this process of learning these skills and being very, very, very specific about the goal. Make 100,000 dollars a year legally by the time I’m 21. And I put all of my information in that.
Mike Malatesta 20:06
Was that a was that a commission job was sort of insurance where you get paid on the policies, Michael or was it?
Michael Unbroken 20:14
It was split. So we had a vet, we had a damn near minimum wage base salary and the rest was commission.
Mike Malatesta 20:22
Okay. And when you, you described 30 families, your mother with the hand, your dad gone away? Do you have a relationship with either of your parents or any of the families that took care of you or didn’t take care of you? I don’t know. During, you know, just I’m just wondering what what attachment you have to that, besides the experience?
Michael Unbroken 20:46
Yeah, none. My mom dry died of a drug overdose. I haven’t seen my stepfather and well over 15 years, never met my real father, that I was so young when I was around those other families. You know, so I grew up in the Mormon Church, which is an interesting little catalyst in all this. And in that
Mike Malatesta 21:06
way, Indiana, in Indiana, yeah. Okay. Well, yeah, I wouldn’t necessarily put those together.
Michael Unbroken 21:12
I wouldn’t either. And so, yeah, and though there were good families in that there were bad families in that as there as with anything, so I’m not like singling anything out. And no, I don’t, you know, I just, I, I’m an orphan in the sense that there’s no one above me, but I have an amazing community. I have amazing siblings, who we have grown so much closer together over the years. And I got the unbroken nation, man, and we’re 100,000 strong, so
Mike Malatesta 21:41
nice. And when did so I think what I want to do first is go you describe, you know, sitting in your apartment, eating the chocolate, watching CrossFit Games, 350 pounds and making a decision then. But it seems to me that there was a decision made earlier. When you decided you were not going to or you you experimented with and then decided you weren’t going to go down the drug gang, whatever route that was, and you were actually going to get, like you said, Make money legally. What was there something that happened where you were like, holy shit, this? It was too close. I can’t I can’t do that again, or was there any I mean, you mentioned what happened to your friends and stuff. What? You think there was a decision then as well?
Michael Unbroken 22:30
Well, so here’s the reality. Growing up, I would go to Pendleton prison, just west of Indianapolis every Sunday with my grandma to see my uncle. And we did that for years. And the most terrifying thing to me as a kid was to go to prison. Because I saw it all the time. Like it was such a consummate part of my life. I got all these pictures of him in the blue jumpsuit to me there with my other brother and my grandpa family. You know, we’d go there on Easter and Chris like it was crazy, right? And, and I remember I made a decision very young. Like, right when I first started selling drugs when I was 12 years old. I was like, the cops will kill me before they put me in handcuffs. And and I was serious because I was like there. There’s no way I’m going to prison. It’s just not going to happen. And I’m lucky. I mean, there there is no question. There’s some type of serendipitous, otherworldly force that is brought me to this moment. I have been shot at I have run from the cops. I’ve been in handcuffs. I have gotten expelled from school for selling drugs, the whole nine. But the one moment that changed. Everything for me was, so I’m in my senior year of high school. Excuse me, I’m in my junior year of high school. And my best friend, this is the dude we did everything with lived up the road from me a few days, a few houses. And he came over to my house and he was like, Hey, I gotta line on some cocaine. Let’s go up a couple cities north of Indianapolis, buy this come back down. We’ll break it up. We’ll flip it, we’ll make more money. Because we were entrepreneurs. I mean, we were selling. We were selling pseudoephedrine. We were selling weed. We were selling like all this stuff. And it was survival. Like we didn’t have gold chains. We didn’t have cars. We were rolling around on bicycles, just trying to make it like for real, like whatever, whatever people envision drug dealing as like, that ain’t real. The realness is we’re just trying to get some food. And he comes over my house this night. I will never understand why. My gut was like, Do not go with him. And we had done everything together. My brother, my best friend, the person I would die for. And I was like, I can’t. I was heartbroken in that moment. Because we did. I mean, we literally did everything together. And it’s not like This was the first time we were gonna do something like this. And so what happens is, he leaves a go to Big Lots the next day, which is around the corner or 30/30, in Georgetown, where where his mom worked. And I walk in and she’s like, have you seen him? And I’m like, What do you mean, he didn’t come home last night? She’s like, No, now, that’s not uncommon. We were street kids, you know, we might be gone a day or two. Well, another day goes by and I bump into her in the neighborhood. She goes, he got arrested. What’s crazy about this, Mike is, I was of age in Indiana, and he was not. If I would have been in the car that night, I would not be talking to you. And that became the real catalyst for why I said, I got to do this legally. It was too close to home. He’d been arrested before. But it never been that serious. All of our friends had been arrested before. That’s what my my family what we were used to it. I was used to being expelled from school and from running the streets and getting high all day long. That was normal. But for whatever reason, that night, my gut said, if you do this, this will be the worst mistake of your life.
Mike Malatesta 26:24
You’re always right. Yeah.
Michael Unbroken 26:27
And that’s the lesson I took from that. And that’s the thing, like, I wish if people would really hear what I’m about to say, it’ll change your life forever. If you trust your instincts and your gut, more than you trust your head, you will do amazing things in the world.
Mike Malatesta 26:48
Okay, so how do you tell the difference? Michael, how do you work through that with people? Because trust your guts and instincts more than you trust your head? What has helped me understand what that means?
Michael Unbroken 27:04
Yeah, great question. Think about this, the human brain serves one purpose. Really, at the essence of it. It’s survival. It’s the only thing that human brain wants to do is operate the body so that you can procreate and live long enough for your creation to procreate.
Mike Malatesta 27:21
That’s it. Yeah. And then and then you’re useless. Exactly. And then
Michael Unbroken 27:25
you’re useless. And so at that, when you understand that your brain only wants to operate within a scope of creating safety in your life, so that you survive. You need to understand that your gut your instinct, like your other brain, as they will call it. Your gut. Why do they always say trust your gut, because it’s never wrong. It’s never steered you in the wrong direction. I think Tony Robbins says it better than anyone. He goes, if you’re in your head, you’re dead. be spot on, in business, in life, in relationships, and friendships and the food that you eat, like, come on, in, you know, you went to the buffet that one time and you’re like, I better not eat that, and you eat it anyway, and then you’re sick that night, your gut is never wrong. And so I’m always trying to tell people is it’s a process, you have to learn it because we’ve actually learned to turn it off, Mike, for many people who have come from a traumatic background, the most dangerous thing that you could ever do is operate as yourself to be yourself. That’s really the essence of your gut, right. But then you also parlay that with growing up in especially if you live in Western societies, an industrialized school system, walk on the right side of the line, raise your hand to go to the bathroom, you color the moon purple and your teacher ostracizes you in front of the entire classroom and criticizes you says you are not special. Who do you think you are to color the moon purple, go sit over there, get away from everybody. Weirdo. Yeah, and then you become 1836 52. And you don’t know how to make decisions for yourself. It’s been stripped from you. You have to rebuild your identity. That’s what following your gut is in the way that you rebuild your identity is by you, you you literally do the thing that you feel compelled to do. And you will learn in that and you will make mistakes in that but you will be honoring your truth and your reality. I tell people all the time, the number one key to life, like if you can figure this thing out, do the trial and error of it. Your life will feel so incredible. I I personally me I only do what I want to do, and I never do what I don’t want to do. Now, that doesn’t mean there’s not monotony in there that moves me towards my goals. And I have to do some things in that. But like the reality is, like if I woke up this morning, and I was like, I don’t want to do this podcast. I’d be like, I’m going to reschedule it. I don’t feel good. I need To take care of myself, if I’m like, I need to sell a company, if I need to write a book, if I need to do whatever calls me, that makes me feel like me, I am going to do it. And that is the key. And it’s difficult, and it’s scary, and it’s uncomfortable. And for most of us, we’ve never done it before. And so we’re learning for the first time in real life in real time, how to be ourselves. Think about it, you we’ve all had this moment, a turning point where you go, I am tired of not being me. And it changes everything when you make that decision.
Mike Malatesta 30:38
Let me so the good thing, let me as I heard you, I was thinking to myself, Okay, so your gut tells you a story. When, as opposed to your head, where your head, you can tell your head a story. So in other words, you like when you say trust your gut, and your instincts rather than your head? Is that what you’re talking about? Like your your guts, telling, you’re not telling your gut story, right? And it’s not responding to you. It’s just your knife. It’s subconscious. But when you get into your head, you’re like, Oh, I wonder well, it could be this or it could be that and you’re basically wheeling around and stories in your head that are that are authored by you may have no. They may have no grounding in reality or anything. But but that’s just what you’re doing and spa your gut is instead sort of completely separated from that is that is that kind of what you’re saying?
Michael Unbroken 31:43
I think that is one of the most profound ways anybody could ever reiterate that. I think you’re spot on, because it very much is like I don’t even argue with my gut ever. I just do what it says. Right. But when I get in my head about stuff, and I’m weighing it back and forth, and I break out the spreadsheet, and I write down the pros and cons and I think about all the things, I don’t make decisions that way. It’s almost impossible. You know, Grant Cardone taught me something really phenomenal one time he goes, commit first and figure out the rest later. And so much of that I think is really about trusting yourself that you’re making the right choice. Because whenever I’ve tried to lay out the roadmap, whenever I’ve tried, like, like, I’m totally all about the idea of start with the end in mind. So let me be clear about that. But that’s the only thing I’m starting with step one, all the rest of it, I figure it out as we go. And I think that’s really the inherent part about trusting yourself that you can go and move towards that goal and make it come to fruition.
Mike Malatesta 32:47
Okay. Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. And that this is sort of a tangent question, but I’m going to ask you, because I think you’ll have a cool perspective on it. Do you see? Or do you recognize the difference between the word choice and the word decision?
Michael Unbroken 33:07
Interesting question. You know, I’ve kind of always parlayed them as the same thing. I think it’s really part of the definition of the individual and how they decide that or choose that to mean for them. I would almost to me, I’m like, I want to actually look up the definitions of both of them right now and see if there’s a differentiation.
Mike Malatesta 33:28
Yeah. Well, there is a differentiation. And the reason I asked is because I actually have a chapter in my book about choices versus decisions. Because, for me, reflecting on a lot of the things that I had done over my years as an entrepreneur and growing a business and all that, and getting myself in a spot where I felt lost and confused and uncertain and stuck and all of those things. As I was reflecting on it, when I was writing the book, it occurred to me that a lot of that was the result of making decisions. So I consider decisions to be like quick things, right decisions, you know, stuffs coming at you as a business owner or whatever you’re like, Yeah, do that. Yeah, do that. Yeah, do that. There. It’s not thought it’s not a thoughtful process. It’s more of an instinct process. And when I learned or I convinced myself or whatever, that I really needed to be making choices, meaning thoughtful, thoughtful, review, reflective based on based on what I really wanted to accomplish as opposed to what needed to be done in the moment or something. It it opened my mind up and my capabilities up to to a level that I just wasn’t achieving when I was making decisions. I could be all wet with that but I just feel like there’s for me that was meaningful When you said, you know you always do what you what I want to do. I thought to myself, yeah, that’s a choice, man. That’s, that’s. Yeah. Anyway.
Michael Unbroken 35:14
So no, I see where you’re coming from. I think it’s really fascinating. I’ve never had anyone broach that with me before. And now I’m in contemplation. And what I’m what I’m wondering is, you know, are your choices really just decisions based on the historical data that you’ve had that present you with an understanding of possible outcome?
Mike Malatesta 35:36
Yeah. And it could be that it could, it could be that or I could be just telling myself a story that makes sense to me. And when I use those different words, it has meaning to me, it makes a difference in how I feel about what I’ve done.
Michael Unbroken 35:52
Yeah, I get it. And I think you’re spot on too, because like, from an entrepreneurial standpoint, like you alluded to it, you have to decide like right now, you can’t do it tomorrow. Because if you wait till tomorrow, it’s too late. Right? But I, what I hear and you’re saying choices is, there’s a little bit more emphasis in the space of time to create contemplation to make a deeper meaning of what it is that you’re about to do.
Mike Malatesta 36:16
It feels like there may be more freedom in it to microwear decisions is sort of something that’s, you know, maybe, I don’t know, maybe not as, as free. But I don’t want to belabor the point, but I just wanted to throw that as interesting perspective on it. So you’re lying on this couch, and you know, Washington watching the game 350. Chocolate, you make a decision? What’s the first thing you did? How do you manifest that decision? Or that choice? Yeah.
Michael Unbroken 36:45
Yeah, I’m gonna, just about this now, Mike. Yeah. So I can figure it, that’s why I write books, so I can figure it out. Um, you know, the very first thing that I did, as I recognized that I was illiterate in life. And, and what I mean by that is, you know, growing up, since I didn’t ever go to school, since I was never really taught money, finances, nutrition, health, how to take care of myself, I really just kind of started thinking about, well, what’s the easiest first thing that I can do. And it was like, Okay, I gotta quit smoking. That felt like really practical. I need to quit smoking, I need to quit drinking every day, I need to quit getting high. When I wake up. Before I go to work, I need to start moving my body. Like I used to go to the gym every day after work. And I would never make it. And I would never make it inside. Because in the parking lot as they do, there is a McDonald’s and a bar. And so I would sit in my car, and I’d smoke a cigarette and drive to McDonald’s and get a Big Mac Extra Value Meal supersize, give me all the fries. And I’d sit there in the parking lot. And then eat this. And I go to that bar that was next door. This is the worst setup, never put a gym next to a bar to McDonald’s. I’ve no idea what these guys are doing. And then I go the bar and I’d smoke another cigarette, I walked in my car, look at the gym. And I’d be like tomorrow. And I did that for a very long time. And then I stopped doing that. And I started taking my ass inside. And I started doing yoga. And this was a time when 1112 years ago, men did not do yoga, especially not men in Indiana. So I ordered some DVDs. If for those of you don’t know what that is, it’s a disc, you put it in a thing. And so I would like watch these DVDs and do yoga in my living room. And then I would push myself and I eventually went to do yoga in a studio. And now it’s still part of my life. I do it all the time. It was really about just looking at the behavioral patterns, I think instinctively again, come into that gut thing. I believe we know what we should and should not be doing to take care of ourselves. And it’s honoring that. And it was honoring the truth that my precedent for taking care of myself had never been established because no one took care of me. And so I had to learn how to navigate that. I mean, even this week, I had to go to the dentist. Whereas 20 years ago, I wouldn’t ever go to the dentist ever. Right? And so it’s the little things you start to build yourself up and understand how to manage your life and take care of all the things that you know you need to do. But again, it really just comes back to that gut because I knew I shouldn’t be getting drunk every night and eating McDonald’s. But it wasn’t, please,
Mike Malatesta 39:38
that experience sort of reminds me of David Goggins and when he in his I don’t know if you’ve read his book Yeah, of
Michael Unbroken 39:44
course. Well, I grew up we grew up 20 minutes from each other.
Mike Malatesta 39:49
Oh, wow. Yeah. So did so you’re that you were you know, you were working fast food. He was working pest pest disposal or something and yeah, he talked about that every he worked to think it Night or later shift, but every time he got off, he would get fast food, go home, eat it. Drink, milk shake. Right, right, right. Right. Right.
Michael Unbroken 40:11
And that’s what I was doing. It’s so funny to me how often people be like, Oh, you parallel David Goggins. I’m like, our wives are not that different. They’re really not, you know, and here’s what’s interesting, a lot of us share that income. He and I are not outliers, we’re not special, somehow, is very common. And, and the difference, I mean, really, truly do the difference between why people are starting to know my name, and people know his name, and people know your name. Because we’ve made decisions to make our lives better, make our lives different, to do the hard things to grow, to change to heal. And you know, there’s something really special about these moments in which you, you look at and you reflect on those things that you’ve done, because they are hard, and they’re uncomfortable, and they’re difficult. And often you have to get incredibly vulnerable with yourself. But in doing so, like that starts the pendulum, right. And I’m always thinking, like, if I can make my pendulum swing over the top of the bar, I can create centrifugal force and really skyrocket my life. The pendulum doesn’t have to come back the other way. But maybe a domino effect is a better analogy for it. I’m just, I’m pushing that first domino, and I’m just watching the rest fall as I go. But it just really starts with that first thing that you do.
Mike Malatesta 41:34
And how long did it take? Before you knew you weren’t going back? If you can remember, and how much help did you need? This was just sort of a rugged individualists approach, or was it? You know, because most people will say, Well, I can’t do it on my, on my own. Right. They’ll Yeah, they’ll say that. Well, I know, they can, probably can, but they’ll say they can’t, and use that as a whatever barrier gate go, or yeah, whatever you want to totally.
Michael Unbroken 42:04
So, you know, I think that the most important thing for me was recognizing that I couldn’t do it alone. Because as I tried to do it alone, my life got worse. I mean, in what, 30 minutes, you know more about me than people who knew me for 27 years. Like, what sense does that make you know, in some in the midst of this journey over a decade ago, and I’m, like, going to therapy, and group therapy, men’s group therapy, CBT, doing EMDR, Gestalt work chair work, I started getting into coaching and having a coach and reading all the books. I mean, right now, I mean, last year, I read 62 books this year, I’m going to I’ll bring it down a little bit. But I’ve read over 500 books in the last decade, I’ve gone to countless seminars, I’ve been literally the only civilian and room full of PhDs for continuing education classes and childhood trauma development, because I needed to learn. I have over 30 certifications and certificates today, because of that, still, I have no college diploma, no high school diploma, right? Because why? Because I want to be the best version of myself. But I’ve had to ask for help. And I’ve had to put myself into uncomfortable and vulnerable positions and say, I can’t do this on my own. Because no one can no one can. They’re like, name a person who’s ever done anything great by themselves. You can’t we are communal species by nature, and we can arise with other people around us. And I have just found, I mean, even today, I have the greatest in my personal opinion, because their mind, I have the greatest mentors and personal development in my personal life right now. Like it’s unbelievable people I’ve looked up to for years, who are now mentoring me, who I get to spend real time with real connection with grow with, right, and I look at my life and I go in 20 years, like I’m going to be where they are. And so I’m just mimicking, modeling and mastering what they’re doing. I mean, the list goes on and on the people who are on my life creating massive change. You you can’t do this alone. You just can’t.
Mike Malatesta 44:24
And when did you decide that you were going to move away from this great career and insurance mean? Was it at the same time that you made this other choice that you’ve that you’ve just described to us? Or was it later down the road where you were thinking, wow, look what I’ve done. And you know, how can I channel that into helping other people or was there a bunch of steps and in the middle what how did it go?
Michael Unbroken 44:51
Yeah, so I so I quit that job before this journey really started. Oh, so I realized like A I hated working for a corporate company. They had metrics on everything. They timed our bathroom breaks, man, no joke. And like, I was miserable, the money wasn’t worth it. And the other part of it too, is. So this is pre Obamacare. So this is early 2000s. And I would have to tell people, I’ll never forget the day, the day I knew I was done, a woman called me. And she was like, You’re the fifth person I’ve talked to today. My little boy has leukemia, and nobody will help me. And I was just like, I can’t help you either. This company’s not going to give you insurance. Again, this is pre Obamacare. So you don’t have to cover pre existing conditions. And I’d have that conversation, Mike 10,000 times over five years, you know what I mean. But for whatever reason, that was the straw, and the next morning, I walked in, and I quit. And, you know, I was making that company millions and millions of dollars in policy. And I was making, I mean, at that time, 170, like a crazy amount of money as a kid. And it just wasn’t worth it just wasn’t worth it. I felt like I was sacrificing who I was. And while I was in the midst of that, I had started a little side hustle, I started a photography business, because I had actually always loved photography. And when I quit, that I got serious about building that business. And one of the biggest mistakes that I’ve made in terms of being an entrepreneur, is I quit that insurance job. And I realized I had to it was the right choice to make a right decision. Right. So he got me thinking, Mike, and so in that moment, you know, I I quit that job, I start the photography business starts to take it serious, takes me three years to make money in that business. And all of my savings went away and you know, but the next thing you know, it became super successful I became one of the top paid photographers in Indiana, traveled the world doing destination wedding, you know, been on cover of magazines work for Coca Cola, Red Bull for roses, you know, Indianapolis Motor, Speedway, all that stuff, right. But in the midst of building that business is when all of this happened. And and it was, man, it was just chaotic for a long time, just so chaotic, because I was just trying to figure out how to navigate it all. And then I got to this point where I was like 29 years old. And I just I knew I had to get out of Indiana, I needed to leave my relationship, I needed to close down the studio, even though I was doing really well, I was I left at right before I was going to break through the next level of that career. Because I just could not emotionally handle it while trying to do more deeper work. Because I’ve been doing stuff like I finally had quit smoking and I was going to yoga and but then it was all the chaos of all of it. You know, I just I couldn’t manage it any more emotionally. And on top of running a business and having a team of people under me and working every Saturday and Sunday for five straight years. And you know, the whole nine and so I just shut it all down to shut it all down. And I said you know what I’m gonna do, I’m going to go into focus only on me. And so even though I was going to therapy, and I was reading the books, I was into personal development, all that I had never put it at the forefront. And so when I left Indiana, I moved to Portland, Oregon, I’m 30 years old. And for the next two years, I just really only focused on me. Now, in that time frame, of course, I had to get a job and you know, kind of start my next entrepreneurial endeavor and became a stockholder in a couple of different businesses and got into some real estate stuff and became a partner in a retail business and started thinking broken and all that stuff over the course of now almost last seven years. But that the one of the best things that I’ve ever done in my life was I just basically took a year plus off and I did nothing but healing work. And it was expensive. And it was time consuming. But man, it was totally worth it.
Mike Malatesta 49:15
And how’d you pick Portland Michael, where’d that come from?
Michael Unbroken 49:18
So you know, one of the things that happened in my career is I started to meet people everywhere as a photographer, and I wanted to go somewhere where I didn’t know anyone. Like that felt to me, like really important. Even a day. I don’t particularly know why but it felt really important. And so that was part of it. And the other part was there was a specialist in childhood trauma who had a group that I wanted to join, and he didn’t do it online. You had to be there. And it was like no one else in the country offers this. And so again, Mike, my question to myself was what are you willing to do to have the life that you want to have? No excuses, just results. Close the business, into the relationship, pack the car, drove across country did what I needed to do.
Mike Malatesta 50:09
So super gutsy, right on two on two fronts, and you made the insurance thing not sound gutsy. But it’s really gutsy, you know, you’ve, you’re making a lot of money. And there were two things the money wasn’t doing for you one, it wasn’t making you happy in your life in your job. And two, it wasn’t making you happy in your life, right? It was. So you were getting fed money that wasn’t feeding you in either parts, either one or parts of it. But that happens to a lot of people, a lot of people are in that exact same situation, but they don’t feel like they have the courage or the confidence or whatever to cut off the feeding, like you did the money cut off the money and start over be in a position to focus on themselves. And so that’s it takes a lot of courage. That’s not an easy decision to make. And I think it’s one of the ones that holds so many people back from what they really truly want to do or want to become.
Michael Unbroken 51:04
Yeah, and there were sacrifices in that too, because I was making a lot of money. I had a great car and a great condo. And my girlfriend at the time, well, after I’d quit that job, um, a year, call it two years into the photography business. I’m not making any money, man, I’d blown through all my savings over those two years, paying rent car insurance, food, you know, the whole nine. And then I was in this situation where I was like, hey, I need to borrow money from you. So I can help pay our rent this month. And that saw, Yeah, that sucks. That sucks, dude. And look, that’s the part of entrepreneurship people don’t want to talk about. That’s the part they don’t bring to light is borrowing money from your girlfriend is shooting whatever, you have to shoot to make 25 bucks and so on and so forth. Now, I will say this, I got a mentor, he taught me how to actually run the damn business. And next thing, you know, I was making 15 grand on a Saturday. Right? But like, the reality was until you figure that part out, there’s a lot of suffering, and and that money. Like, I’m so glad I made the money I did with the company, because it helped me for those first couple of years, really understand how hard entrepreneurship truly, truly is. Because there’s no way I would have made it right to magazine covers and awards and to shooting weddings and Cozumel in Jamaica and all over the you know all things. And so, you know, it’s really fascinating to me, that people want to make entrepreneurship seem like this beautiful grandiose thing, because in one hand it is there’s freedom. Like I love the fact that I’m an owner still to this day, I own think unbroken I own partnership in my other companies, I own real estate investments, I own those things. But man, you gotta suffer for a long time before it starts to make sense, right? It’s it’s a real life MBA.
Mike Malatesta 53:09
And without the suffering, it doesn’t have meaning. Comes anything that comes too easy, as you know, probably easy to discount to write. Yeah.
Michael Unbroken 53:20
Totally. And then go ahead. I was just gonna say and then the other thing about it, too, is like, people fail to understand, like, if you really want to be an entrepreneur, it takes every second of every single day. Yeah, Intel it doesn’t. And that takes a long time. You know, there’s no overnight success. Think about this. I’ve been doing this for almost six years. We just met Mike. You know what I’m saying? I’ve been on this journey for a decade plus, it takes time. And whatever you think, if I can give people a magic pill for entrepreneurship, this pill would be whatever you think’s about to happen is not going to happen and add five years
Mike Malatesta 54:06
Yeah, I say you know, the stories that get told her Red Bull and pizza one day and billion dollar valuation the next and you know, that’s the story The Wall Street Journal wants to wants to launch right. But you know, those stories are so so, so, so, so rare. And if you become an entrepreneur match what you think is going to be your story, the likelihood that you will end up significantly depressed and disappointed are really, really high. Yeah, because as you said, there’s those stories aren’t the real stories. You got to give indeed and see what those people actually went through. There’s no you know, there’s no yeah, it’s just it’s so thank you for, you know, reiterating how difficult it was. When was Michael unbroken born? How did that concept come?
Michael Unbroken 54:55
So I was watching Kobe Bryant’s Muse this time Documentary about him from I don’t know, was it 2012 or something? It’s fairly old. Um, and I remember him being like, after his Achilles injury, he was like, Man, I had to figure out how to get back into this. And he was like, I came up with this concept of Black Mamba. Yeah, Black Mamba. Yeah. And he was like, when I’m the Black Mamba, nothing will stop me. And then I started thinking about how true that has been for a lot of people think about Clark Kent turn into Superman. Right? It’s an alter ego Beyonce turning into Sasha Fierce. Shawn Carter being Jay
Mike Malatesta 55:40
Z. Yeah, Batman. Yeah,
Michael Unbroken 55:45
it’s my that is my Batman. My book, Michael on broken is my Black Mamba. My Jay Z. When I’m about to get on stage in front of 10,000 people and I’m about to shit my pants. I’m like, Yo, you got to show up and perform. You have to be unbroken right now. You have to be this leader. You have to show up this way. And then what’s funny is now I actually don’t know which one is more me anymore. You know what I mean? It’s like, it’s suddenly I am batman every day. Like, you know, Batman is Batman, Bruce Wayne is the alter ego. And I feel like every single day, the deeper I get into knowing who I am, the more I do this work, the more I teach, the more I speak the more I write this is so true of who I truly am. And it’s the greatest thing. It just came to me like in this light bulb moment. But you know, the the the think unbroken the brand, this actually came, because what I recognized about my own human experience is ever since I was a little kid, people called me broken. Whenever you don’t fit in the mold, they call you broken, wearing clothes from the goodwill showering at schools stealing food to survive your broken, right doing these things in my life. And then in relationships, people would say that, and I was like, I’m not broken. I’m not that is not who I am. That’s not how I believe that’s not how I think. And then think unbroken became a reality over five years ago.
Mike Malatesta 57:22
Nice. Light was sharing that. Yeah, that’s, that’s remarkable. And I love it. By the way, it’s so it speaks. So speaks to what you’re doing. It’s like, what you’ve been through and what you’re doing and what you’re helping people with. Hmm. You know, when I was listening to your podcast, you said, I don’t know if you were talking about a person or if you were reading a review, like I did at the beginning, Michael, but you said someone was crediting you with, you know, saving their life and you. You accepted the compliment. And then you took it in a totally different direction that I wasn’t expecting. And you said, I don’t save anybody’s life or something like that. And then you went on to explain why what, what was happening there.
Michael Unbroken 58:19
Yeah, you know, so the, the first time someone ever messaged me that I was so caught off guard. Because that’s not why I do this. Right? I don’t do this to be your hero. I’m not, I’m not coming to save you. I promise you. I’m not, I’m never going to be swooping in to rescue you from your own shit. When people send me that it’s so warming and beautiful. And it’s such a great reminder of why I do this. But it is not why I do this. Right. You following. And so they sent me this and it’s quite frequent. When this happens. Someone will say, Hey, you saved my life. Your Podcast saved my life. You say? Like, No, I did not. You saved your life. You had to show up. You had to do the work. You had to take out the pen and paper. You had to listen to the podcast and read the book and go to the conference. You had to do this. I don’t know you. I’m just simply here to give you what I know. That’s it. I’ve never walked in your shoes. The only life I have ever saved is my own.
Mike Malatesta 59:31
Yeah, so you’re not saving lives. You’re making you you’re helping people understand that they can be the heroes in their own stories.
Michael Unbroken 59:41
Yeah, entirely right. Because like, the truth is I’m not special. I don’t know anything other people don’t know. The only difference between me and other people is I’m willing to face the fear. That’s it. I’m willing to see what’s on the other side of being terrified because that fear, like that’s the catalyst man, that thing that keeps you awake at night, that thing that you know you need to do. If you do that thing, your life will be different. And I just want to show people that it’s possible.
Mike Malatesta 1:00:17
I, I recorded an episode yesterday with a guy named Philip Stutz. And he was telling me about how he has been, has done a couple of sessions with psychedelics to try to get to, to reveal the part about him that was broken. And I don’t I don’t want to get into psychedelics here. But I, one of the things he said was, like, he said to me, it was almost like you chastised me a little bit when I asked him about the trauma because he said, you know, dude, like, everybody’s got trauma. And I was like, Okay. I, okay, I’m trying to reconcile, you know, mine against, you know, whatever his was like, Okay, so, I guess, and broadly, I could certainly create a definition that would apply to everybody. But I don’t think that I don’t, I don’t know that. I don’t know what to make of it. And and you’re an expert. So I’m going to ask you, because every person have CTE like childhood trauma? And are their degrees and are there or is everybody sort of whatever trauma you had is your trauma, and it’s just as valid as anybody else’s? How do you how do you think about it, Michael? And how do you get how do you help people get past it?
Michael Unbroken 1:01:37
That’s a great question. I think that here’s how I choose to define trauma, especially in this scope, as opposed to DSM or medical terminology. Yeah, I look at trauma as anything that has impacted your life so negatively, that it impacts your behaviors today. And what do I mean like by that, think about go back for a moment, I talked about this idea of coloring, the moon purple, getting chastised, never stepping up for yourself, again, being embarrassed, being afraid to show your art, being afraid to share who you are in the world because of bad experience, right? That’s what I think about trauma being it’s not just the beatings, it’s not the cutting or being molested or being locked in closets or hurt or burned or beat like those things are trauma. But it’s also the things that in passing, most people would miss, but as impacted your life so negatively, that you feel like you can’t be yourself. There’s a causation and correlation of every experience we’ve ever had. Everything, we are the sum total of all of our experiences leading to this moment. And so to to dismiss the idea that that thing that happened 48 years ago doesn’t impact you. I think that’s dangerous. Right? Now, of course, there’s there’s trauma around divorce and hospitalizations, and physical injury and not being taken care of, you know, the list goes on and on and on. And those things you can measure, you can look at the A study by Dr. Felitti, and the California Center for Disease Control in Kaiser Permanente that they did in the 90s. You know, it’s indicative of the truth that, on average, 84% of people and civilization, all planet Earth, right, had been impacted by childhood trauma. That’s what you can study in research. I would argue it’s higher 95% Probably 100. Really, like realistically, we all had something bad happen to us. It’s true, right?
Mike Malatesta 1:03:34
Particularly if your definition is very broad. I mean, yeah, of course. Okay, okay.
Michael Unbroken 1:03:45
And, and the one thing I think about that, too, which has probably carried more weight in my life than anything, is that if 99% of people have had something bad happened to him, maybe you’re not that alone.
Mike Malatesta 1:03:58
Yeah, for sure. There’s a big community. Yeah, big community. And I remember you, I read, I read somewhere you said, you know, you, being a human is violent, something like that humans are violent, right? And a very, it only takes a moment of bad reaction on the part of an adult or even a colleague or a friend or whatever, to really damage you. So I get that part like it because it you have to be really, especially as an adult, you have to be very careful, right? Because, you know, you know, much better when you’re in a position to damage someone then you did when you were, you know, a kid or Yeah, and it’s a big responsibility.
Michael Unbroken 1:04:38
Yeah, it is. And, you know, even think about the way that your past impacts your relationships, your career, your business, your intimacy. I mean, everything that’s ever happened to you, it matters. Don’t be dismissive. That I think the reason I know Excuse me, let me rephrase that. I know that the reason that my life was a disaster when I was in my 20s, even though all of the things pointed to like, wow, you made it is because I hadn’t yet acknowledged the reality that my past was impacting my present behavior.
Mike Malatesta 1:05:16
Right? Instead, you were just thinking,
Michael Unbroken 1:05:24
I was I was pushing it down. I was saying, I’m bigger than this. I’m a man, those things don’t matter. I carry a finger on my hand that was cut off. It’s there every day. I can’t run from the surgeries from the scar tissue, from the discoloration from the skin grass to not being able to feel it. I can’t run from that. It’s right there. And yet I tried to you know what I’m saying?
Mike Malatesta 1:05:50
Yeah, I’m, yeah, I don’t I that’s not gonna hold me back. I’m like you said, I’m strong enough. I’m, you know, it’s yeah, when you’re not.
Michael Unbroken 1:06:00
And you saying that is holding you back? Yeah. And that’s what’s so fascinating.
Mike Malatesta 1:06:07
So Michael, who Who do you work with? And how to, you know, who should contact you? Who Who do you? Where do you have to be in order for you to be the person that they that someone wants to connect with?
Michael Unbroken 1:06:21
Yeah, you you’ve got to already be convinced that you’re ready to change. I’m not going to do that for you. You have to already be willing to answer that question. What are you willing to do to have the life that you want to have? And if it’s anything less than no excuses, just results? I’m not your guy. Someone is, but I’m not right. And so, you know, I think that if you’re in this position in your life, where you’re willing to do whatever it takes, pack up the car, leave the relationship closed, a business moved to Oregon, you know what I’m saying? Like, whatever it takes, if that’s where you’re at. I’m your guy. Anything less of that. You need to do more work, grab some more books, listen to more podcasts.
Mike Malatesta 1:07:02
Okay, so if you’re ready to get off the couch, put down the chocolate, and actually, actually see yourself in the CrossFit Games, as opposed to watching some other people. That’s a time.
Michael Unbroken 1:07:12
There you go, Mike. Michael, it’s
Mike Malatesta 1:07:14
been such a pleasure having you on thank you so much for being here. And, and I’ve learned a ton and thank you for the work that you’re doing. Is there anything else that you want to leave people with in terms of connection or advice or inspiration or whatever?
Michael Unbroken 1:07:29
Yeah, you know, the thing is, like, again, now you’re in my head, Mike, I just your decision away. You really are. It’s right here. It’s waiting for you. I created the think unbroken podcast because I wanted to take these kinds of conversations and give them to the world as well as coach people in the podcast and so think I’m broken podcast, it’s on all the platforms or thinking broken. podcast.com
Mike Malatesta 1:07:54
got it. Michael, I’m broken. Thank you so much. It’s my
Michael Unbroken 1:07:58
pleasure, my friend. Thank you.
Mike Malatesta 1:08:02
All right. Whoo. Oh,
Michael Unbroken 1:08:06
man. You’re good dude. The whole time. I’m sick. The whole time. I’m here. I’m like, damn, I feel like I’m getting interviewed by Rich Roll.
Mike Malatesta 1:08:14
Well, that’s high praise. I appreciate your
Michael Unbroken 1:08:17
killer. You’re phenomenal. That was great. This is this immediately went to like, top two all time. Really? Well, yeah. I loved it. Man. You’re great. You’re a natural.
Mike Malatesta 1:08:27
Thank you. Thank you so much. And I like I told you at the very beginning, I’m gonna I subscribe to your podcast. Because I was so impressed by a couple of episodes. I watched. And I didn’t I didn’t I didn’t watch any interviews yet. I only watched your solos, which impressed me a lot because they keep telling me I should do solos, my Podcast Producer, you know, you got to do soul. It’s got to be solid. And I just feel I don’t have a I’m missing something. Confidence wise, or whatever to do it. And because I’ve always been doing this and I kind of like this. Yeah, yeah. If you like it, don’t change it. Yeah, I guess. But I’m gonna I’m gonna continue to watch yours because you’re giving me you’re inspiring me. And activating me to, you know that I can do this. Like I can do what he’s,
Michael Unbroken 1:09:14
you totally can. Look, I’ll even give you the secret. People always ask me how I do the solos. Because there’s 100 solo episodes. I actually have another podcast that I actually turned off because people were getting lost. It used to be called Michael unbroken podcast that a ton of solo episodes on it. And and here’s what I do. Just whatever I learned in personal development in the morning, I just talk about that. That’s all I do. Okay, but it’s it. So if I watch a podcast or I read a book, like the daily stoic, or you know, Tony Robbins, or Grant Cardone, you know, whatever. I just go and talk about the stuff that I learned that
Mike Malatesta 1:09:49
day. Okay, that’s it. It’s pretty simple. Yeah,
Michael Unbroken 1:09:53
it’s super simple. You’re just overthinking it, man.
Mike Malatesta 1:09:56
Yeah, I think you’re right. So um, Thank you for the for the compliment I if if I know I’m trying to get booked with you, but maybe it’s not right maybe you’re doing you know, I
Michael Unbroken 1:10:07
think you are booked with me. Oh, am I?
Mike Malatesta 1:10:09
Michael Unbroken 1:10:10
Let me look my team does that so they should have I would have imagined parlayed with your team.
Mike Malatesta 1:10:19
Yeah, I just don’t I usually don’t look at.
Michael Unbroken 1:10:23
I don’t either. I don’t have a schedule. I mean, that’s okay.
Mike Malatesta 1:10:28
If you think we are then fine. Otherwise, we’ll get with a man. Amanda right. Yeah,
Michael Unbroken 1:10:32
I want to look here real quick. Just Sona. Make sure. Um, yeah, you’re coming on in two weeks.
Mike Malatesta 1:10:41
Okay. Okay. So really looking forward to that. Yeah, I’ll be fun. So yeah, if you I would like to send you a copy of my book if you’d be interested in it, if not a percent. No. So we’re absolutely. Where should I send that? Yeah, it’s
Michael Unbroken 1:10:55
2600. Lawrence, like the man’s name, Lawrence Street. Number 1090. Okay, and that’s Denver, Colorado. 80205. Yeah, it’d be my I’d love to read up, man. Okay,
Mike Malatesta 1:11:17
cool. All right. Well, sorry for the problems at the beginning. I’m so glad that we got this all get this done. I’m so glad you made the choice to hang on.
Michael Unbroken 1:11:27
I need to go get the dictionary now. And I didn’t mess with my head, Mike.
Mike Malatesta 1:11:31
Yeah, I wish I had it handy. Because I did look, I did have the definitions when I was writing the book that they were different. Yeah. Because it helped me codify my thinking on it. But yeah. Yeah. And if you have a chance to leave me a review on that on Apple or wherever, that would be great, too. Because Oh, he sounds fun to me. Yeah. Okay. Well, enjoy your weekend. And thanks for thanks for this opportunity. Yeah, I do consider it an opportunity.
Michael Unbroken 1:12:00
My pleasure, man. It was absolutely phenomenal. And I got a mad amount of gratitude for you. Because you know, my goal is to end generational trauma in my lifetime. And that means you are part of my mission. And so I appreciate you.
Mike Malatesta 1:12:11
Thank you. All right, brother. I’ll talk to you a couple weeks. Okay. See ya. See ya. Bye. So, Ron, here’s the message for you. I don’t know if you’re going to hear this, like I did. But there was some crackling. From time to time when Michael is talking. And I, we tried to work it out at the beginning. And we couldn’t I don’t know if it was a zoom thing, or it was a on his side, but he has a really nice setup. So maybe, maybe it was a zoom thing. But if it’s necessary, I’m going to record this for you to insert at the beginning, just to let people know and if it’s not, then you can just ignore it. So 321 Hey, before we get started today, I just wanted to let you know that you might notice that the sound quality of this episode is not as high as you’re used to from my podcast. It’s not that bad, but it’s just wasn’t perfect. And we couldn’t figure out how to make it any better. So no worries, you’re going to hear it just fine and probably not going to bother you at all but I did want to make you aware of that before we get going. Thanks. Okay yeah, should be good.