Mike Millner – Putting Yourself on a Personality Diet (362)

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Episode transcript below:

SPEAKERS

Mike Millner, Mike Malatesta

Mike Malatesta  00:00

On today’s how to have fun show, I’m talking with Mike Millner. Mike is a fitness and nutrition entrepreneur, a podcast host, and author. And what I really liked most about Mike was a sort of psychological and philosophical approach that he uses to connect with people to help them become the person they want to be.

Mike Millner  00:20

Can you identify who you want to become? What are we let’s define what success looks like. A lot of times people are afraid to even take that step. Because once you define success, you’re also defining failure. Anything that’s not what you define as success is failure. So a lot of times that’s a scary thing.

Mike Malatesta  00:38

We talked about ugly breakups. Looking in the mirror at a person, you don’t recognize why willpower is a finite resource. Right? Rigidity does not work, and much more. I loved this hour I spent with Mike and I hope you do too. Hey, Mike, welcome to the podcast.

01:04

Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Mike Malatesta  01:06

I am excited to have you here. And I gave everybody a taste of Mike, in the little intro that I did. But now I’m going to tell you a little bit more about Mike Millner. So Mike is the founder of peak optimization performance, which we’ll learn a lot more about. He’s been a high level nutrition coach for almost 10 years. He’s got an extensive level of understanding of the psychological and physiological needs of his clients, which has led to 1000s of success stories. And we will get into at least some of those success stories. I want you to make his success story out of me. By the way, I’m just going to put that out there right now. My. So this is this is maybe my own little therapy. Through Mike’s process today that I’ll be able to share with you all. Mike utilizes a personality based approach with an emphasis on mindset. He’s been featured in thigh barmy.com, nutritional coaching institute, Ever Forward radio, true transformation and many others. Mike is the host of the minds over macros podcast, and the author of the personality diet, the simple solution to getting off the diet hamster wheel and finally creating lasting results. He is Mike Milner on socials. Is there a hyphen and like a dash in between your name on that? Or is that? Just your name?

02:29

Instagram, it’s at coach underscore Mike underscore Millner and then on Facebook, it would just be my name Michael Millner.

Mike Malatesta  02:37

Okay, mi L, L N E. R. And his website is www dot noreau type training and N e u r o t y p e training.com? So, Mike, I start every podcast with the same question. And that is how did happen for you?

03:01

Yeah, it’s a good question. And I kind of look back at two different inflection points in my life that kind of led me down the path that I’m on. And those were things that I never imagined would be my path I kind of was always what I like to call a box checker for life is just kind of, you know, follow the the standard path of, you know, go to school, go to college, get a degree, get a you know, corporate job, try to work my way up and buy the house, get married, all the things so I never imagined that I would be kind of off of that path and doing what I do now owning a nutrition coaching business and having gotten into fitness. The first inflection point was when I was in college right after I graduated, I went to University of Maryland, and I grown up an athlete so I was always very athletic, always into sports. And as a kid, I always knew that there was some issues in my family with with dieting with body image, poor relationship with food, I always remember my mom counting points or counting, you know, she was on a different program, always dieting and my oldest sister struggled with a severe eating disorder almost lost her life to anorexia. And at some point in time, I just recognized like everybody in my family kind of has this issue with food and body image. And I felt like I was the fortunate one because I was always active. I was always playing sports I could, I had a fast metabolism and just never had any issues until I did and that happened. Right when I graduated, I no longer was playing sports. So it was I went from a very active kid to a very inactive kid, but I still continued the typical eating and drinking habits of a college kid. I was drinking a lot of alcohol. I was eating a lot of you know fast food and when you combine those things with not a lot of movement, you gain a lot of weight very quickly, which happened to me and the first inflection point It was going into my bathroom and at Maryland and looking in the mirror and not recognizing myself and I was probably 80 pounds or more overweight. And I don’t know why it hadn’t sunk in until that moment. But there was just something about that day that morning that I just felt like the person looking back at me in the mirror was not me. And because I had such a, my identity was so wrapped up in being an athlete, it came with all of this fear around, not being able to get back on a basketball court not being able to play tennis, not being able to go home and see friends who I haven’t seen in a long time, or family because I had all of these thoughts in my head about what they would say to me, how did you let this happen? And how did you let yourself go and all this stuff played in my head. So that was the first inflection point, my solution at the time was, I need to lose this weight as fast as humanly possible so I can get back to being me. And that was, that really led me down the dark path, which I kind of outlined, which, you know, everybody in my family kind of experienced. And I thought that I had avoided those things until that became my reality. I started doing hours of cardio every day, which I just absolutely hated. I was restricting my calories way too extremely, I was losing weight at a rapid pace. And then I would binge and overindulge and gain it all back and I went on, I was on this kind of yo yo cycle of dieting and gaining weight back. And it was just a pattern that was really hard to break out of. And being able to get out of that, that headspace with poor body image issues with disordered eating tendencies and poor relationship with food, a poor relationship with exercise, the minute that I started to see the light and find what was actually going to be sustainable. It really changed my life, it really saved my life. And at the time, you know, I had tarnished and broken a lot of relationships that were important to me. So fixing those things, and healing myself through that process was the first moment that I was like, I really need to help other people avoid a lot of these mistakes that I’ve been making. And that led me down the path of becoming a personal trainer. And then I found that my passion was more on the nutrition side. And more people were struggling clients that I was training at the gym, they would show up consistently, but their biggest struggle was always the nutrition. And ultimately, I became a nutrition coach, I became obsessed with learning everything that I could about nutritional science and human metabolism, and how our body actually changes. And then I became a nutrition coach for another company. And that led to kind of the second inflection point I was there for a number of years, I worked my way up, I was one of their top coaches. And the second moment was when we kind of had this ugly breakup where the company that I was working for, kind of pulled the carpet out from under me unexpectedly. And I was I had a good salary I had, you know, a lot of freedom and flexibility and was kind of living the life that I wanted to live. But I just there was this disconnect in the way that they went about helping people that did not resonate with me. So there was a little bit of a moral dilemma that I had were kind of on the surface had everything that I wanted, but I just didn’t fundamentally believe in their approach. And that all came to a head and it got pretty ugly. And I was in this sink or swim moment. And at the time, I was going through a divorce, I had lost my grandfather, suddenly, who was a huge influence on my life and a big mentor of mine. And I was kind of back against the wall. And I started my business in that moment and kind of one of the darkest times of my life and decided I’m going to do this on my own and haven’t looked back since. And so now, here we are about four and a half years later, and we’ve grown considerably year over year. And I’m really fortunate that I had that opportunity to just bet on myself and and try to figure it out. And and here we are.

Mike Malatesta  09:01

And thank you for laying all that down. Mike, before I go back to some of the stuff that you that you that you shared in your answer. I want to ask you this, four and a half years, and I haven’t looked back Were you ever looking toward as you were growing up going through high school, college, even in your first jobs? Were you ever looking toward this goal of being an entrepreneur being your own boss or whatever? Or was that you mentioned? You know, the carpet was pulled out from underneath you? Was that something that came to you out of? I want to I want to say the word desperation. I don’t know if that’s the most appropriate word, but I’m wondering what, what, what was going on? Was it was it something you were destined to be or did it just happen?

09:50

Yeah, you know, it’s interesting because as I look back at a lot of the jobs that I had, in the past, I always knew that I just didn’t do Well, with having a boss and having a structure and, and kind of the corporate world just I knew that there, I felt out of place. And I don’t think that at the time, I had the wherewithal to say, You know what, maybe I’m better suited to be a business owner to be an entrepreneur, I don’t think that I had that foresight at the time. But I didn’t know that something just wasn’t right. It was like this, this puzzle piece that just didn’t quite fit. And I carried that with me. And it was a real struggle, it was just, you know, I don’t know, the whole culture of the different organizations I was with, it just always felt off. And with the company that I was working for, you know, a lot of nutrition coaches go in with the idea that they want to build their own business, that was never my plan, I was working as a trainer at a local gym, was really happy. And then, you know, got getting into nutrition coaching, I was really happy that I found a job that, you know, could pay me pretty well. And I could coach clients. And, again, the way that their whole process of handling client relations just did not align with me. So that’s when those thoughts started to creep in, like, you know what, I could probably do this better on my own and do things my own way. But I knew nothing about starting a new business, I knew nothing about marketing, I knew nothing about sales, you know, I was completely new to this entire process. So to your question of was it kind of desperation? Yeah, I didn’t feel like I had a choice that I was either, you know, I’m gonna, you know, put my tail between my legs and, and rollover, or I’m gonna do this and show them that they made a big mistake. And so a lot of it was driven by some probably some of my competitive nature of being an athlete and wanting to win. So maybe not the healthiest motivation, but it really drove me to figure it out, and to just keep working. And, you know, when I first started my business, fortunately, I had a lot of people that already knew me from that other company. And when they found out that I was no longer there, they would reach out and like, you know, what happened? Where are you working with? Are you doing your own thing, because we want to keep working with you. So I had, I had a little bit of a head start. But I really had to figure out what it was like to actually own a business, and then build a team and then be a leader, and all of those things I had never thought about before until I was actually in the moment. So there was a lot of growing pains along the way, and still, you know, skill sets that I’m trying to improve, even, you know, almost five years later,

Mike Malatesta  12:24

what are some of the skill sets you’re trying to improve right now today?

12:27

I really think, you know, team building and leadership, I would say, those are like the two biggest things that, you know, I know my own work ethic. And I always feel like I can figure things out and get stuff done. And I have a high level of confidence in my own ability, even if I’m not where I need to be, I know that I can get there. And I don’t mind adversity, I don’t mind failure. But having to deal with other people and having to, you know, rally a team together for a common goal. And we’re all on the same page and communicating and having difficult conversations. And, you know, one of the things that I’ve really had to get over is my tendency to be a people pleaser, and not sometimes I’m not making everybody happy. And I have to be okay with that and communicating some things that some people might not want to hear. So I think that stepping into that leadership role, and really trying to build a culture and a team that is all striving towards that same mission, and understanding our core values, that has definitely put me way outside of my comfort zone and something that I’ve been actively working on for a while now.

Mike Malatesta  13:35

Okay, well, thanks for, for sharing that I, as I was listening to you talk about that. I was like, okay, so this is one of the toughest things I think, all leaders face, right you whether you’re an entrepreneur, or whether you’re leader in a company, you you suddenly are elevated to a point or a position where everyone below you, is looking for direction, they’re looking for a mission, they’re looking for a reason to believe in you. And being the first time that that expectation perhaps has been put upon you in that sort of way. It’s it’s not easy to figure out how to accomplish that. And I wanted to ask you, you know, particularly based on what you had mentioned, were you well, you weren’t you may not be built to work for somebody else. So you’ve got you’re bringing into this, your own experiences that are like, you know, I don’t know that I align well with the people who are telling me what to do. And now you’re in the position of maybe not telling people what to do all the time. Hopefully not but but really telling them what to do with this is the plan right?

14:50

Yeah, it is. It’s interesting because I you know, I definitely bring my own bias to the table as we all do. And so that is something that does make me a little bit uncomfortable and I You know, I’ve really tried a lot of times, you know, it’s the challenge for me is taking the the vision that I have, because I’m a visionary, I don’t know if you’ve read the book rocket fuel, but I’m, I’m a visionary through and through. And I have ideas all day. And, and I typically am more of the ready fire aim approach, which drive some of my team, you know, my employees nuts, because they a lot of them are like they’re integrators. They want the plan, they want to know all the details. And that’s just not how my brain operates. So I can have this vision. And then once the vision is clear, I’m like off to the races. They’re like, wait, wait, let’s slow down. And I’m like, No, we need to operate with speed we need to go. And so it’s being able to take those ideas and effectively communicate so that they understand, you know, what the marketing plan is what, what the intent behind what we’re doing in our goals, and the strategies behind all of that. And so the real challenge for me is, is taking that vision and being able to let the integrators do what they do. And so that’s something that I would say is definitely a discomfort of mine that again, takes takes active work.

Mike Malatesta  16:08

Yeah. And that that ready fire aim thing is, is very common amongst entrepreneurs and visionaries, and probably a lot of leaders as well. And, you know, this always frustrated me, let me see if it frustrates you. So you are thinking as visionary. And maybe you’re getting past this now, because you have what you mentioned, but you’re thinking, Okay, what, you may not be thinking exactly that what I’m putting out here is brilliant, and everybody’s going to be like, This is awesome. But you’re you’re putting something that you’ve already convinced yourself of is good. You’re putting it out there, and you’re just like, you’re just thinking to yourself, well, everyone’s gonna get it right. I mean, I think it’s good. This is why I explained it and and then you run up against, like you said, a lot of people who actually have to implement stuff for you or for any business, they’re more, they’re fact finders, they, they don’t want to move forward until they really understand everything about it, and then they’re at their absolutely wonderful, you know, at getting it put together. But you’re, you think, and I’m putting my own thoughts into you, you can dispute them, but you think, you know, one size fits all, like my message is so great, that you’re gonna get it and just run the same way I would run and it just doesn’t always happen that way.

17:31

Yeah, it’s funny, as you’re saying that, it reminds me of one of my favorite studies that I like to quote pretty frequently, that highlights the fact that a lot of times the way that we communicate, and then the expectation of how that communication is received, there’s often this this huge disconnect. So there’s this study that was conducted, I believe it was at Stanford, and they had a group that was going to be the tappers, they were going to actually tap on a desk. So the one half of the study was all the tappers and then the other half of the people that were going to be listening, and they asked them to pick a song from a list. And it was a lot of like, basic songs that everybody would know, like, Twinkle, twinkle, little star, and, you know, things like that old McDonough, whatever, some common songs that were pretty well known. So they would pick the song that they thought they could tap the best on the desk. And the person listening had no idea what the song was, the person that was tapping obviously knows the song. And so they say, What are the odds that the person listening will be able to guess, the song that you’re tapping? So they say, you know, I think maybe like 60% of the time, then they actually tap and they tap the song. And then before the guests, they say, What are the odds now that you’ve heard yourself tapping the song? Now, what do you think the odds are, and I think they lowered it, maybe like 10%, they said, maybe 40 to 50%, I realized maybe a little bit harder than I thought the actual outcome was 1.2% of the time. So it was incredibly difficult. For the person listening to have any idea, all they’re hearing is a bunch of noise, the person tapping has all of these accompaniments in their brain of the actual melody and the tune and how in there, they’re tapping and they’re singing along in their head. So they assume that the person listening can hear all this stuff that’s in their brain. So as you’re kind of outlining it, it reminds me of that where a lot of times I think what I’m, I have this plan, I have this vision and we’re gonna we’re gonna go and I feel like I’ve communicated all these things, but I have all of this music playing in my head that the person listening has no idea what that so it’s, it’s just a testament to sometimes when we think we’re communicating really well, there’s often a disconnect. And even after the the message has been delivered, we think we delivered it really well. And there’s still a disconnect in how it’s received. So I always try to remember that study. How well did I explain this and did the person actually hear it the way that I was intending to deliver it,

Mike Malatesta  19:57

everybody? Just a quick pause here to let you know how much I appreciate that you’ve made time for my podcast. If you’re not already a subscriber, please become one today, leave a review and tell a friend. Now, let’s get back to the show. That study remote Wait, as you are going through that it reminded me of the game Pictionary, where I feel like I’ve drawn the perfect picture like how could you not get the picture and no one gets it? Because the reality is, it’s a horrible picture. And it’s, in my mind, it looks like one thing and everyone else’s mind. It looks like gibberish, right? It’s one of the toughest challenges that I’ve faced. I’ve been an entrepreneur for 30 years, maybe even a little longer. And it’s still something i i And I consider myself a visionary like you might but I still struggle with trying to short circuit, the connection between what’s what I’m thinking and how I explain it to someone. It’s just, you gotta slow down to, you know, you hear you got to slow down to speed up. I think this is really one of those things where you have to slow down to speed up.

21:02

I think so too. Yeah, it’s, it is really difficult. But I think that the more proof over time, where if you’re, if you do slow down to speed up, and you have evidence that that’s a little bit more effective, it’s just kind of accumulating more evidence that you know, sometimes the instinctual, biased way that we approach things, maybe not the best. So I always try to have little ways of just checking my blind spots and checking my biases and things of that nature that really helped me to stay grounded and not get frustrated if maybe the message wasn’t received the way that I intended it to.

Mike Malatesta  21:39

Do you have a like a go to way of testing whether the message was received? Do you ask people to? You know, say it back to you what the expectation is? Or I’m just curious if if you’ve got something that maybe isn’t 100%, but it’s something you’ve you’ve learned to rely upon?

21:59

Yeah, I think it always comes down to asking the right questions. And that’s been really important for actually how we coach our clients. And you know, the irony of the whole process is that we don’t really tell them what to do, we get them to come to their own conclusions. And it’s kind of similar, where when I’m working with my team, I want to if I can ask the right questions, then I’ll know, if the message was received, the way that it was intended to, is when we’re trying to transform somebody’s health or well being or body or whatever it is they’re trying to accomplish. If if our coach, the coach that they’re working with, or, you know, if they’re asking the right questions, then ultimately, they’re going to get to where they want to be because it provides a level of autonomy, which, which humans typically prefer. So giving them the empowerment of, I’m making this choice because I came up with the idea i This is my decision and I can own it. It is a much more productive way to reach the outcome that we all desire.

Mike Malatesta  23:07

I’d like to go back to college for a little bit. You mentioned that you were an athlete, you mentioned in sort of tangentially basketball and tennis. Were those the sports that you played or were you active in, in others?

23:20

Yeah, so in high school, I played basketball, tennis and soccer. Tennis was always my best sport. One of the things that I just I’m I’ve actually picked it up again recently and have fallen back in love with it. But I did get burnt out. I was playing very competitively when I was younger and tournaments every weekend and trying to get nationally ranked in that whole thing. And I really got burnt out. So I had opportunity to play tennis at the collegiate level and turn it down just because I’ve kind of lost my love for the sport. I played basketball, I certainly was not good enough to play D one college basketball, but I could hold my own. And, you know, soccer was just another sport that I played that wasn’t as serious as the other two. And then when I went to college and went to Maryland, it was more just for for fun. And I played on all of the different leagues that they had available, whether it was flag football or soccer league, a basketball league. So I continued just you know, any form of organized sports, I continued that all through college, but my my competitive playing days really stopped after high school and kind of actively chose to sit out playing tennis and Now recently I’ve gotten back into it, okay.

Mike Malatesta  24:35

And that that matches up kind of with my experience too. So my as a competitive you know, small private school football career ended. Well, I actually did play or try out in college, but I kept getting hurt and so I stopped but ended in high school and I had similar experience to you, you know, they hear you hear people talk about, you know, freshmen putting on some weight and when they go to college, you know, because I mean, look, the food is free, right? Everybody thinks, oh, the food is free, they give you as much as you want, you can go back and take it whenever you want. And then you know, you kind of can make your own decisions after, you know, having some drinks or whatever, you get something to eat at night. And you know, it just kind of that was my experience, you know, you get in a fraternity. For me getting an attorney, you know, you’re playing beer pong, you’re doing all these things, and then you know, you’re hungry. And yeah. Before you know it, you you’ve, you’ve put on some weight. I certainly did that. Sounds like you did that as well. But what I was. And when you said you one time you looked at yourself, you didn’t recognize who you are. Or so you said something like that. And then you said, What, which I thought was really interesting was that what are people going to think about me if they see me? Which is kind of ironic, because all the people around you are seeing you all the time. You’re the but there you are the mic that they know, they don’t know this other mic, maybe the pre mic? So

26:17

I don’t know what what,

Mike Malatesta  26:20

what do you think was the thing that made you think more about what people would think of more than more about what other people would think about you than what the people around? You are thinking I’m assuming that no one was saying, Hey, Mike, dude, you put on your pack? And on some pounds here, man, you got to do something.

26:39

Yeah, so I think it was because I’ve, I’ve always been pretty introverted. And the way that I always made friends and connected with people with through sports, and, and I had a very close knit group of friends from high school that I stayed. You know, we stayed friends, we still talk every day, we have our little group texts that we message each other daily. And so I’m very fortunate for those friends, there’s all through sports, you know, they were on my soccer team, and we played something together. And I think it was more so going back home, and seeing old friends that I hadn’t seen in a while. And, you know, I think a lot of the the friends that I made in college, maybe because the relationships weren’t as deep. I didn’t think about that as much. Although there was I do remember some times where I would go back to play a pickup game basketball and somebody, you know, who hadn’t seen me in a little while would make a comment. And I would just kind of brush it off. But then it kind of stuck with me a little bit. And it’s like, you know, I kind of ignored what was happening for a while until it was so obvious. I couldn’t ignore it any longer. And, you know, there’s, there’s a certain way that I viewed myself and my abilities as an athlete, and no longer being able to do those things. And, you know, wondering, if I could still, I could never really dunk a basketball consistently. But if you gave me like a tennis ball or something I had, you know, I’m only 510. So I had a pretty good vertical. And I always remember just being like, I don’t even want to try because I don’t know if I can get my feet off the ground anymore. I’m thinking about my own abilities. So there was a lot of just things about myself that drove a lot of insecurities, and a lot of things that made me want to hide and, and, you know, kind of fix it before. I you know, I saw anybody else that was maybe from my past,

Mike Malatesta  28:37

okay. And the inflection, you didn’t mention this as an inflection point. It was an inflection point number one. But you said something about when you figured out how to heal yourself. And I was wondering, you’re so you’re doing all the cardio you’re doing, you’re you’re doing all these things to drop the ad, the ad pounds that you mentioned, but when was the point where you felt like you, you know, sort of tipped over to the healing part the the, or being in control of the healing part?

29:11

Yeah. Yeah, it was kind of a product of going through so many different methods, that we’re all just different versions of the same thing. And I recognized and I don’t know what brought about this level of awareness, it just kind of all hit me at once where everything that I had tried up until that point, I’m talking like years of losing a significant amount of weight and then gaining it all back very quickly. And it was taking a toll on me physically, and it was taking a toll on me mentally. And every time I would find myself back at square one. The conversation that I had was you just need to try harder. You just need to be more disciplined. You just need to be more consistent. So I would join the next program. That was another story. privation diet and, you know, you name it, I tried it I had, you know, the meals delivered that were like, you know portioned, to limit your calories, I tried anything that you could imagine to restrict what I was eating, and it always landed me back at square one. And I would have that same conversation, here we go again, you have to be more disciplined, you have to try harder, you have to be more consistent. And, and then I kind of reached this like rebellious phase of like, I’ve been doing these programs and probably did 10 different diets or 15 different diets, and I’m back to, you know, well over 200 pounds, I’m not where I want to be. And so I kind of went through this period of like, you know what, screw it, I’m just gonna live my life and kind of went back to some of the poor habits of not eating well, and drinking a little too much and, and then I just realized that it made me feel awful, I was sleeping poorly. I had no energy, I had really poor digestion, I had brain fog, I started to notice all these symptoms. And I think that was really a big moment of clarity. And when I wanted to go back into the pursuit of weight loss, I kind of took a step back and was like, You know what, if I go down this path, again, it’s probably going to ultimately lead to the same result that it always has. And rather than joining the next diet, I need to figure out how to just be somebody who’s a healthy person. And that was really like the reframe of, I needed to focus on my behaviors and my how I deal with stress and how to deal with negative emotions. Because a lot of the times I was dealing with those things through food and alcohol, and I wasn’t I never do all of those different programs. I never learned how to fuel my body appropriately. I never learned how to move my body appropriately, I just was following a plan that was, you know, a cookie cutter template that somebody handed me or that I paid for. And I just tried to follow a rigid set of rules instead of thinking, how can I become the person that goes to the gym, like that needs to be part of who I am, how can I become the person that chooses quality foods, because of how it makes me feel, because of the energy that it gives me because of the clarity that it gives me mentally because of the way that I can perform and get stronger. And one of the biggest switches was when I stopped doing so much cardio, and I actually focused on the pursuit of strength. And that was one of the first times where my attention went away from the scale and it went towards what my body is capable of that I could actually lift heavier weights that I can get stronger that I can see improvements outside of just a number on a machine that I’m standing on. And that was really a much more empowering way of viewing things. That was that was a huge turning point for me. And then slowly but surely, it just did, it became my normal, it became who I am, it became part of my life, part of my habits part of my routines. And that was when it stuck. And that was when it kind of all became very clear about how we go about this backwards, you know, we we think we need to follow this this plan, and just be more disciplined and try harder and work harder and be more consistent. But at the end of the day, it really comes down to becoming the person who does these things, becoming the person who moves their body because they enjoy it becoming the person who chooses quality foods because of how it makes them feel becoming the person that has productive and positive outlets and coping mechanisms for stress and negative emotions are becoming the person who prioritizes sleep, and all of these health promoting behaviors when it becomes part of who you are, then that’s when it’s going to last that’s when it becomes sustainable.

Mike Malatesta  33:51

I love the framing on that, you know, how do I become whatever it is that you want to become? It’s It’s essentially a Well, you said before, you know if I can ask the right questions, so that’s asking yourself the right question, right? How so this is what I want. So rather than how do I get it? How do I become it? So getting it seems like like, like it’s something that someone has to offer you at some point were becoming makes it something that it’s a journey, right and it makes it something that you you know the answer to you just need to go down the path in order to achieve it. I guess.

34:36

That’s exactly right.

Mike Malatesta  34:38

Why doesn’t rigidity work, Mike? I mean, it seems like rigidity works in other parts of life. You know, you’re well, maybe it doesn’t, I don’t know what what, why doesn’t rigidity work when it comes to becoming what you want to do? Become an i acid. So I am pretty sure you’re an expert on this, which is good reason asked. But another is timing. This is January of 2023. We’re recording this. And, you know, this is the time when the gyms are, you know, it’s hard to get a parking spot, you know, at the gym after work because everybody’s at the gym, and then you know, in, in March and April in May, it’s a lot easier to get a parking place. So it’s the opposite of becoming is what’s happening right now to most people and happens every, I guess, every year around this this time.

35:37

Yeah, so it all comes down to the way that our brain is wired. And if you understand that, the reason why rigidity doesn’t work is because our kind of psychological wiring works against that. And there’s been several studies that have been done where, you know, if you give somebody let’s there’s, there was one study, I think it was also done at Stanford, there’s been a lot of psychology research done at Stanford, but they gave students a bag of Hershey Kisses, and they told half of the students that they were not alike, just resist, resist the urge, you’re not allowed to have one, don’t eat the Hershey Kisses, you know, and then they sent them on their way. And they had to carry around this bag, and they were all marked and waited and everything. So they would know if they tried to lie. And then the other group, they were told, you know, hey, if you’re, if you’re really like craving a Hershey Kiss, and you want one, like, it’s okay, you know, the objective here is to just honor your emotions, they help them with some like processing, like, just take a pause, you know, assess if you really want the chocolate, if you do, it’s okay to have one, you know, ultimately, you know, we really want you to make the choice that feels right for you, is more of an uplifting, empowering approach. And they’ve done a version of this study in many different contexts and always comes out the same way, when you’re told that you can’t do something that you can’t have something. Now you’re just working on willpower. And willpower is a finite resource. And we know that willpower depletes over time. So willpower is going to be strongest in the morning. And it’s going to dwindle down in to the evening, we have 10s of 1000s of decisions that we make every day that all require mental energy, which also contributes to willpower. So the more decisions that you have, the more fatigued your willpower battery gets. We have things like stress that drain willpower, poor sleep, drains willpower. So we have all of these things that if you’re just relying on willpower, it is a recipe for disaster, which is why rigidity doesn’t work when you are boxed in. And it’s like you can’t have this thing, you can’t do this thing. All of a sudden, you’re just taxing that willpower battery over and over again. And it’s inevitable that you will break some people can can hold out longer than others. But ultimately, you will break if it comes from a more uplifting, self compassionate way. Sure, maybe you’ll have Hershey Kiss, but ultimately, you’ll have just one instead of the entire bag, which is usually what happens. So it’s it all comes down to a kind of the way that we’re wired and working with our human brain versus trying to fight against it. Same thing with, you know, New Year’s resolutions, there’s a statistic that 8% of New Year’s resolutions will be successful, which means 92% will fail, which is because everybody tries to bite off more than they can chew, they set this big ambitious goal, they get this nice dopamine hit, it feels really good to set goals, but then then the work settles in, and then life sets in and then stress hits and all of a sudden, you’ve because you’re trying to accomplish everything all at once. It’s much easier to sabotage your efforts, and then set another goal because then you get another dopamine hit, which feels really good, you’re gonna get you know, think about the future and how amazing you’re gonna look when you’re 50 pounds lighter, but you never actually focus on on the sustainability side of the equation, and how to gradually make this change and become this person. Which, which is another issue that we have. We’re very disconnected from the future version of ourselves, we either treat that future version of ourselves like a total stranger, or like a superhero. And the way that that manifests itself is, let’s say, I skip the gym, and I validate I justify my decision. I’m not going to go to the gym today because next week, I’m gonna go every day, like, I tried to get to the gym this week. I skipped it, but next week, I’m gonna go every day. So that’s me treating the future version of me like a superhero. The future version of me is still me. So he’s going to skip the gym to when that week rolls around and you’re going to think about that the next week. Oh, he’ll go to the gym six days a week. It’s not going to happen which is why we need to get comfortable and familiar with that few A true version of ourselves, when we treat that person like a stranger, it’s when we sacrifice them in a moment. For example, let’s say I’m out with my friends. And I have, I have to get up really early because I want to work out in the morning, but my friends are like, Hey, let’s, let’s keep drinking, let’s take shots. Let’s do this. And I’m like, Yeah, you know what, I’ll do that now. Because in the morning, that’s, that’s future, Mike’s problem. That’s not my problem. That’s his problem. He’ll deal with that in the morning. So we treat that person like a stranger. And that’s typically the two issues, we either treat him like a superhero, like they’re going to swoop in and save the day and make up for all of our bad decisions. Or we treat them like a stranger where we sacrifice them in a moment of instant gratification. What we need to do is recognize that that person is us we need to get really familiar and, and kind of recognize and acknowledge that person and treat them like they are us and be kind. And that’s when we start making decisions in alignment with the person or the people that we want to become, instead of having this disconnect as if there’s it’s a totally different person.

Mike Malatesta  41:02

Just a short break here to ask you a question. Have you read my book, it’s called owner shift. How getting selfish got me unstuck. And it’s available on Amazon, audible and everywhere else. If you’re looking for inspiration that will help you unlock your greatness and potential order, or download your very own copy today. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say treat your future person, like a hero or a stranger. And as I was listening to you, I kept sort of leaning in, because when you said, treat your future self like a stranger, like a hero. I was like, Oh, yeah. And then when you said like a stranger, I’m like, oh, yeah, that explains a lot. Because if you don’t see your future person as you as as you know, the future present you it’s probably pretty tough to build a bridge to become the person you want to become right? Hmm. So how do you when you start working with people, Mike, how do you get? How do you get people to think about who they want to become? And not? Which? How they’re going to be a hero or a stranger to themselves at some point in the future?

42:24

Yeah, so that that actually is the first question is, who is that person? And can you identify who you want to become? What are we let’s define what success looks like. A lot of times people are afraid to even take that step. Because once you define success, you’re also defining failure, anything that’s not what you define as success is failure. So a lot of times, that’s a scary thing, you might have somebody to say, my priority, if I get somebody to define their success, they say my priority in my life is number one, more than anything else, I want to spend time with my kids, I want to pick them up from school like that is top of the list for me, well, then a job opportunity presents itself. And it requires you to be at the office at four o’clock when you would be spending time with your kids and picking them up from school and you take the job. And then you wonder why there’s this internal turmoil of you know, there’s this feeling of uneasiness and disconnect, because you just sacrificed your ultimate priority of success. And now by definition, you are falling into failure by your own standards. And so the first thing is like, let’s, let’s define and prioritize what what actually is important to you, what does success look like to you? What are the most important things in that, you know, is obviously a process that will evolve over time, it’s never going to be stagnant. But it’s something that we should constantly reevaluate, and make sure that we know what that looks like, and what that means to us. The second thing that I have them do is I have them actually write a letter to the future version of themselves. And then I have them write a letter as the future version of themselves. Because we’re trying to create this connection here, where, you know, the, a lot of the times the future version of them as they’re writing the letter to their current self will say, you know, thank you so much for all the time that you put in, in building these habits that have really been instrumental in improving our health and improving our happiness. And, you know, we spend more time with our family now we are more confident at work and they’ll start to highlight all of the things that are really those underlying core desires. When people come to me and they say they want to lose weight, they don’t really want to lose weight, they want the feeling that is associated in their mind, with weight loss, there’s all of these things that they have, right these you know, the music that’s playing in their head, there’s a lot more to it than just weight loss. There’s you know, typically confidence or self esteem or energy or health a longer and more fulfilling life or happiness or connection with their kids or whatever it may be. There’s there’s always a deeper reason And so they start to connect those things to the future version. So those that really helps to bridge the gap. And then when they’re in a tough decision when they’re when they are in their own inflection point or friction point of, I can make this decision to not, you know, walk today or I can go out and even though it’s cold, I’m gonna go for a walk, and I know I should move my body, it’s a lot easier for them to make that decision that’s in alignment with the person they want to become, because they’re very connected to that person. And it’s never perfect. You know, they’re still that’s the other part of the equation is learning, self compassion and acceptance. And when you when you don’t make the decision that was in alignment with the future, you how do you handle that? And that’s a really important part of the process. Because you said it yourself. It’s, it’s a journey, we can’t expect perfection on this journey. Otherwise, that’s another recipe for disaster.

Mike Malatesta  45:51

When you take people through this, this process, Mike, do you find that most people know what they want? They just don’t know how to ask for it. Or they don’t know how to frame it? Or do you think? Or do you find that it’s something else, they don’t know what they want. And as a result, they don’t know how to become? Or even start becoming it?

46:19

Yeah, what I see most frequently is that they have a hard time, peeling back the layers and understanding why they’re saying why are they saying that they want the thing that they want? And that that really is? You know, if I asked the question of what do you want, everyone’s gonna give me a surface level answer. More money, better fitness, look better a better relationships. But what does that actually mean? And that’s where once we start peeling back the layers, like what is what is more money mean to you? Why do you it’s always a feeling there’s always some kind of underpinning core desire that in their mind, they’re connecting something else to more money, or better health, or whatever it is. And that’s the part that people struggle is identifying. What is it that’s, that’s below that surface level answer? And I typically like to go a few layers deeper. It’s like, Well, I think, you know, I think I’ll feel better, we’ll Great. What does that mean? Tell it, you know, let’s, let’s peel that layer back. Yeah, and keep going. And that’s really where we get to the heart of it. And that I think that some people just, they’ve never accessed that before, they’ve never accessed that core desire before. So it’s hard for them to tap in. But once they get there, it’s such a strong foundation for taking action, that it really helps to drive them forward and to keep them consistent through the process.

Mike Malatesta  47:42

So it sounds like people have a pretty good ability to answer a surface level what question it’s the why behind the what, that becomes a challenge. And that’s the work you do to really get to I mean, if you don’t understand that you’re, you’re gonna have a hard time becoming something either than a hero or a stranger to yourself, because you don’t know, really where you want to end up.

48:08

Yeah, that’s exactly, you know, we need to know where we’re going. You know, it’s, I’m trying to follow a GPS, but I don’t have my starting point. I don’t have my ending point. I’m just following directions blindly.

Mike Malatesta  48:19

Right? That’s a good way to get off the cliff. Yeah. Neuro type. So neural type training is your website, what is neuro type mean?

48:30

It’s basically a way of categorizing personalities. And just understanding some of the tendencies and behavioral traits, personality traits of certain individuals. And it gives us a basic Headstart into knowing the way that you’re wired, what motivates you, things of that nature, strengths and weaknesses, whether you’re a planner, whether you’re somebody who likes variety, or whether you’re competitive, whether you’re goal oriented, so it kind of gives us this Head Start of knowing some of those behavioral tendencies that really help us to start the process. What I say is, it’s not like we’re just kind of, it’s not like if your personality x, then we follow a y plan. But it really does give us a head start in knowing what you’re going to relate to the most.

Mike Malatesta  49:26

So I on on Mike’s website, there is no type training.com There’s a personality. This is called a personality assessment. I started taking that, because I thought I’m going to take this before we go on the podcast and little did I know of course, it’s 100. I think it’s 100 questions. It’s not easy. It’s not like a three second thing, but so I’m 75 questions through I’m after I get done, I’ll finish the 25 and submit. But what what’s got me so fascinated About this personality tests so far is that I’m on like, you know, you’re I feel like I’m on a training and nutrition, you know, website. But the questions are reminding me of like a disc or Myers Briggs or like some of these others where you’re really it’s, it’s really I’d actually don’t know where where I’m going to end up on this thing. The questions are so well, they’re they’re, they’re wide ranging way more wide ranging than I, in my mind had thought. You know, when I when I when I hit the tape, the tape thing, can you, I encourage everybody to do it? Because like I said, I haven’t hit Submit yet. I’m 75 questions in and they’re, they’re all multiple choice questions. And they’re about you. So it’s easy to answer, I guess. Especially if you know, your why and not you anyway, I don’t want to get into that. But it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s so I encourage everybody to take it. I guess I’m, I’m wondering where, how, why it was designed that? Did you design that what what helped me understand where it came from? Because it’s just, I’m just fascinated by the questions.

51:11

Yeah. So it was kind of the work that I did with mentor of mind, Christian Tibideaux. And also a lot of the work that I’ve done in behavioral psychology, personality, psychology, positive psychology. So there’s influence from Christian Tibideaux. I also look at some of the existing models like the Braverman models, psychologists, the cloning or models and other psychologists, and kind of take elements of that with the ultimate goal of being able to categorize people based off of neurotransmitter dominance, which helps us understand there’s a strong connection between neurotransmitter dominance in personality traits and behavioral tendencies. So that was the goal was being able to come up with an outcome that gave us which is why it’s so thorough, because we don’t really want it to be accurate. So being able to look at, if we can identify through these questions, your neurotransmitter dominance, we can also identify your personality traits and behavioral tendencies, which gives us a really solid head start in building a personalized plan, as we’re trying to create this, this lifestyle change, or whatever outcome you’re trying to pursue, it really gives us a lot of information to work with, to kind of take that level of personalization up a notch from your traditional, hey, we’re just going to give you a nutrition and training program.

Mike Malatesta  52:42

Okay. And that kind of connects back with what we were talking about early on about, you know, team building and leadership a little bit, right. Because if, if you try to give someone your plan that you think is going to be their plan should be their plan, right? It’s your, it’s my plan should be your plan, you’re probably missing a few connections with the person. Whereas if I’m understanding this correctly, the outcome of this would be hey, I can have a better first and ongoing discussion with you because I know who you are a little bit better than well, maybe then you do.

53:20

Yeah, that’s exactly it really, it creates more connection with the coach and client creates a better understanding. And it’s, they enjoy it more. You know, one of the things our clients say frequently is a lot of the programs that they tried in the past, they felt like they were trying to be somebody else or fit into somebody else’s plan, because that’s typically what most programs are. Whereas they felt like, once we started working with you, they say, I felt like I was just being myself. And that’s what it’s intended to do. We’re not trying to change who you are, are just trying to instill better habits and kind of take that bridge from where you are now to where you want to be. But you shouldn’t feel like you’re having to work against yourself to make that happen. We should be able to make, you know, build that bridge together in a way that feels authentic to you. And that’s really I think the advantage to doing it that way.

Mike Malatesta  54:16

Okay. I like it. So I’m gonna set I’m really looking forward to hitting hitting the submit button on that Mike what’s what’s some mind over macros your podcast? What? Why’d you start that? What’s What’s What are you trying to accomplish with it? Why is it important for people to listen?

54:34

Yeah, I started it. Let’s see, it’s three years ago, and I started as my own form of therapy. Really, I had no intentions of doing anything with it. I just had a lot of stuff in my mind. I told you I have thoughts and ideas that constantly run on repeat in my head and I was like, You know what, I’m just gonna start a podcast. I’m gonna hit record. I’m gonna get all this stuff out of my brain that I want to share. And that way it’s out and I can just you know, go on about my life. And then it started to gain some traction. And I kept doing it and I really enjoyed it. And then I got to connect with people and have conversations like this and, and meet people that I would have never met before. So, and then all of a sudden, you know, it was, I started seeing the downloads piling up. And I was like, people actually are listening to what I have to say, which is kind of crazy. So I absolutely love it because I, I do like to explain nuanced topics, I like to explain the why behind certain things in the psychology behind it. And, you know, the actual process of transformation is so fascinating to me. So it’s really my platform to be able to get into the details of that. What do we actually know about the way that we transform ourselves that we create new habits, that we change our internal beliefs and things about ourselves? So there is a heavy focus on fitness and nutrition, but a lot of it is mindset related psychology related, you know, personal development related. So, you know, for those who are interested in those concepts, that’s, you know, that’s where I talk about it the most.

Mike Malatesta  56:10

And mind over macros, I love the name. But what do you mean by macros, so people understand what the reference is?

56:17

Yeah, so there’s a way of monitoring your nutrition, which is pretty popular in like bodybuilding fitness circles, called Mac tracking macros. So if you look at, you know, any, any type of calorie counting program, all calories are made up of macronutrients, which are just the three major ways that we get in calories. So it’s either from protein, carbohydrate, or fats, you cannot get calories from any other source except for those three with the exception of alcohol. So some people joke that alcohol is the fourth macro, but really, it’s you know, any food that you’re consuming is made up of protein, carbs and fats either heavily on one of those or a combination of there.

Mike Malatesta  57:05

And where does sugar fit into that mic? Sorry, it interrupted

57:08

carbohydrate, carb. Okay. Yep, yep. So what people do, who are, you know, a lot of people in the fitness world in the fitness community will say, Okay, I want to know how many calories I’m eating. And then I want to manipulate my calorie intake to try and change my body composition. So if I start, you know, just take an average day, and I just go, there’s, there’s plenty of free apps out there that you could download, like, there’s one called My Fitness Pal, there’s one called chronometer, they’re free to use. And you can basically go in and track everything that you’re eating for, for a day or for a week, or for however long you want to do it. But let’s just say you do it for a day and, you know, breakfast, you have eggs, and bacon and whatever else and you put that in the app, and then lunch, you know, you have a sandwich, you put that in the app, and at the end of the day, you look back into total, and you’re like, Oh, I eat 3000 calories today. You know what, what people will do is, then they’ll say, I want to lose weight, so I’m going to reduce the amount of calories. So now I know I’m eating about 3000 calories a day, maybe I’m gonna reduce that to 2700 calories a day, and see if that helps me with my weight loss goals. And to take it one step further, you can look at the breakdown of all three macronutrients. The reason why that that’s important is because, number one, it gives you an awareness around how much you’re eating. But it also makes sure that you’re getting in enough of each macro. So Protein is essential, meaning if we don’t eat protein, and we don’t live fats are essential. If we don’t eat fats, we don’t live carbohydrates are non essential. But that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be consuming them because like vegetables and fruits are carbohydrates. And there’s some quality starchy carbs, like rice and potatoes and things of that nature. But it allows you to see, am I getting in enough protein to maintain muscle mass, which is really important. It also helps with satiety, so making sure that I’m staying full longer am I getting enough fats to support my Hormonal Health and things of that nature? And am I getting in enough carbohydrates if I am lifting weights, and I want to recover, or it helps with sleep, or serotonin production, so each macronutrient has different roles in the body and is important for different reasons. Tracking macros, is a way of kind of assessing all of that it’s a little bit of an advanced strategy. The reason why I chose the name mind over macros is because I’ve worked with a ton of people over the years who become so obsessed with the numbers game, that they just treat their body as if it’s a dynamic or a static formula like they they obsess about every single morsel of food that they put in their mouth and they meticulously weigh and track every bite of food and it becomes an obsession and a stress us and so I went with the name mind over macros as in what’s happening up here between your ears is much more important than tracking every single piece of food that you’re you know,

Mike Malatesta  1:00:10

and it goes with everything you’ve been saying, right? It’s not about, you know how much time you’re on the treadmill. And it’s not about you know, if you don’t know where you want to end up, if you don’t know who you want to become, if you don’t want to eat, all those things are just data points that you can’t connect they, they’re just data points that you’re tracking, you don’t even know why probably. Right. So I know, we didn’t get a lot of time to talk about your book. But I know we’re, we’re bumping up against our time here. But the personality diet who, who did you write the book for? Who should be reading this book? Why is it important?

1:00:52

Yeah, I wrote it for the previous version of myself that was struggling with, with chronic dieting that was struggling with, you know, hours of cardio and losing weight and gaining it back over and over and over again, and feeling like, I was never going to get off that hamster wheel. So that was really the intended audience. And, you know, because of my own journey, and my own story, I attracted a lot of people similar, who, you know, thank you so much for sharing your story. It’s my exact story. I’ve been doing this for 30 years, I started dieting when I was eight. I started dieting when I was 12. I started dieting when I was 15. And all these stories from people who shared a similar struggle. And so the book was really to help people learn how to get off of that hamster wheel, how to stop the constant calorie restriction or you know, diet hopping, yo yo dieting, gaining and losing all, you know, this whole rinse and repeat cycle that many of us fall victim to. So that’s kind of the the intended outcome of of the book.

Mike Malatesta  1:01:58

And had you been telling this story before you wrote the book, Mike. And I asked that because in my book, there were a lot of things that I was not telling anybody for a long time that just internalize things. And I, part of what I was trying to do, and in addition to teach people, or encourage people to, you know, take control of their futures, was also to just get it out there so that it wasn’t this thing that I was just harboring. Instead, I was hopefully using it in a way that would would resonate with other people. So I don’t know what’s yours. Was yours, sort of like that, too, or?

1:02:45

Yeah, you know, I started, when I started my business, I started writing every day and sending an email, I send an email Monday through Friday, every single day, and I haven’t missed a day for four and a half years. And it was just something that I started doing. And, you know, again, I didn’t have any, there was no business decision behind that it was literally I just wanted to write and communicate through my words, and, and it’s been something that’s really taken, taken off, and people enjoy it quite a bit. So I would share my story there. And then when I started the podcast three years ago, I would share my story, but I kept getting these people like you, you need to put this all in one place, you know, it is they would get bits and pieces. But it was never a complete version. And so that was really an opportunity for me to kind of share the whole story. And, you know, be able to put it all in one place.

Mike Malatesta  1:03:36

Got it. And in the beginning, four and a half years ago, that first Monday, where who was that email going to?

1:03:44

It was literally just some people that I had worked with, you know, and some people that had either people that I had trained at the gym, people that I had worked with previously, I picked, you know, I had some clients. So it was just to a small group. You know, a lot of people when I had this whole, messy breakup with my previous employer reached out and we’re like, you know, how do we stay in touch with you? How do we stay connected? Oh, hey, send me your email, I’ll put you on my list. And that was really how I started it. And people got, you know, they were seeing a lot of value from what I was sharing. So it just kind of started catching on. And that was before I knew anything about you know, creating like a lead magnet or an opt in page or anything like that. It was just through messenger or text and I would just say hey, send me your email add you to my list. And that was how it all began. Probably didn’t

Mike Malatesta  1:04:37

seem brilliant at the time, but it’s brilliant. That’s brilliant. You know,

1:04:41

it worked out. It was one of those I always say like, you know, lucky things that I that I did for a guy I wish I could say I had the foresight at the time, but it was just a lucky accident.

Mike Malatesta  1:04:54

Like is there anything that I should have asked you or that you would like to share with me? With me in the audience, before we call it a day here,

1:05:05

I think some some really great questions. So there was nothing on my mind that I felt like I wanted to share that we didn’t touch on. I think we covered a pretty wide array of topics, which I appreciate.

Mike Malatesta  1:05:19

Well, thank you so much for being on the show. Make sure you check out Mike at neuro type training.com Check out his book, The personality diet, his podcast mind over macros. And of course you can follow him on social. We said those at the beginning. I can’t remember what the Instagram was. It was like at the coach something can you just remind people what those are?

1:05:44

Yeah, of course, Instagram is at coach underscore Mike underscore Milner and then Facebook is my full name. Michael Milner.

Mike Malatesta  1:05:53

Got it? Well, Michael Milner it’s been an honor to have you on the show today. I learned a lot i I’m glad we got a chance to explore a lot of that mind framework you call it mindset frame framing. I was really that was really some intriguing stuff for me, and I hope it was for everyone listening as well. So I do appreciate you sharing that and I really dig your vibe, you got a really nice vibe to you. That makes I said before I’m leaning in, I want to lean in and listen to you and learn more. So you got something, you got something magnetic about you and I’m just very glad to have had the opportunity to to experience it today.

1:06:36

Thank you. That means a lot. I really appreciate it.